abducted 18-year-old Samantha Koenig in downtown Anchorage Saturday night (Metlakatla: compared, worst)

[wildchild_to]

Originally Posted by Jan Alaska

If the owner of the debit card didn't 'give' it away how did Keyes know the PIN ? The probability of him guessing a 4 digit number has to be 1,000's to 1.

This guy has to be involved but clearly they know hes not the killer .... this case gets weirder and weirder.

The FBI has showed the paperwork United States VS Keyes for electronic fraud, even before she came up missing (another case). That is why the Feds went looking for him to, he missed a Federal court hearing.

The CC/DC in question was stolen out of someone car in AK at 2:00 AM one morning.

Video
Feds Transporting Keyes: Alleged Fraud Charges | Coastal Television | Anchorage, AK News, Weather and Sports | Alaska News

[dcarrot]

Originally Posted by Metlakatla

It's actually possible to use a debit card without a PIN if the clerk runs it as credit, and some retailers will add cash to the total. But if he used it at ATMs, he had to have had the PIN. You're right; it's weird.

There are some idiots that write their PIN on their card.

[starlite9]

Originally Posted by dcarrot

There are some idiots that write their PIN on their card.

Sadly when/if she was tortured, she may have been promised they would stop if they got the pin number from her. Cheep price to pay if they did, but clearly they could have lied if there is a connection.

[Spazkat9696]

Originally Posted by Metlakatla

It's actually possible to use a debit card without a PIN if the clerk runs it as credit, and some retailers will add cash to the total. But if he used it at ATMs, he had to have had the PIN. You're right; it's weird.

You can re-pin cards pretty easily. I can go into my bank and re-pin my card, and they don't even check my ID.

[Jan Alaska]

Originally Posted by starlite9

Sadly when/if she was tortured, she may have been promised they would stop if they got the pin number from her. Cheep price to pay if they did, but clearly they could have lied if there is a connection.

Starlite, the card wasn't hers. Now we are wondering if the card was used as 'payoff' for services rendered it has to connected with the case somehow. Either way someone somewhere knew where to find her and told the police.

[Metlakatla]

The person who killed Samantha is most likely the person who told them where to find the body.

If the person whose card was stolen was somehow involved, that person would be in police custody by now. Even if the card had been used as "payoff"...that would not and could not have been accomplished without an actual arrest. If the credit card holder had known of the whereabouts of her body, he would have been arrested. Law enforcement personnel do not have the authority to make the kind of "deals" that's been suggested.

These things rarely play out the way that they do in mystery novels.

[gobrien]

Originally Posted by Metlakatla

The person who killed Samantha is most likely the person who told them where to find the body.

If the person whose card was stolen was somehow involved, that person would be in police custody by now. Even if the card had been used as "payoff"...that would not and could not have been accomplished without an actual arrest. If the credit card holder had known of the whereabouts of her body, he would have been arrested. Law enforcement personnel do not have the authority to make the kind of "deals" that's been suggested.

These things rarely play out the way that they do in mystery novels.

It wasn't fiction I got the deal info from, it was an Ann Rule true crime novel but the deal was made by the prosecutor, not law enforcement. From memory only, wasn't Gary Ridgeway-the Green River Killer-also promised things in return for his help in locating some victims? I read non-cheasy true crime to educate myself but it didn't help me very much in identifying an actual con artist in my own family.

[Metlakatla]

What I was referring to was the statement that perhaps the credit/debit card holder was somehow "in" on it and not anything that you said. My point, again, is that if the person who the card was stolen from offered info on where to find the body, that person would have been arrested by now. Again, law enforcement personnel doesn't get to make that call -- they don't have the choice whether or not to arrest someone if they supply evidence. That is not how the law works.

Any info that Ridgeway offered happened after his arrest. It isn't the same thing.

To put it as simply as I can -- if the credit card holder had told them where to find the body, that person would have been arrested by now. Someone in that position may be able to make "deals" with prosecuting attorneys, but they cannot make deals with arresting officers.

Again, I was not referring to your post about the Ann Rule book.

[gobrien]

Originally Posted by Metlakatla

What I was referring to was the statement that perhaps the credit/debit card holder was somehow "in" on it and not anything that you said. My point, again, is that if the person who the card was stolen from offered info on where to find the body, that person would have been arrested by now. Again, law enforcement personnel doesn't get to make that call -- they don't have the choice whether or not to arrest someone if they supply evidence. That is not how the law works.

Any info that Ridgeway offered happened after his arrest. It isn't the same thing.

To put it as simply as I can -- if the credit card holder had told them where to find the body, that person would have been arrested by now. Someone in that position may be able to make "deals" with prosecuting attorneys, but they cannot make deals with arresting officers.

Again, I was not referring to your post about the Ann Rule book.

Oh, sorry. I agree with that

[Jan Alaska]

The implication was not that the card holder was in on it but the person who stole the card in the first place.

In any case its going to be a while before anyone knows the whole story.