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Old 12-03-2011, 06:03 PM
 
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Hi
My family has a real possibility of relocating to Michigan. We have 4 kids ages (12, 10, 8, and 6) that we will have to transition also - so this is a huge decision for us, we have family in Ohio and Canada, So Michigan central area seemed like a good choice. My husband will relocate his business from San Diego California. Although California is beautiful, however education is getting ridiculous (34:1) student teacher ratio. Also it's becoming less and less business friendly. So we are willing to move to be closer to family, hopefully better education and, hopefully better business environment. Can anyone provide any information to the following questions?

1. Great schools are very important to us - where are they in the area?
2. How's the housing market compare in those three areas (Ann Arbor, ,Northville and Novi)? Looking for the most liquid market?
3. We live in on a great master planned community, Upper middle class, tree-lined street, walking distance to library, parks, baseball fields, cafes, and Starbucks. Are there any neighborhoods that resemble this that cover all of the above? With 4 kids, I will be all over the place. Ohh we are a very active Soccer family.

Any help/information is greatly appreciated!
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:26 AM
 
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Welcome to Michigan!

Just to give you a general idea, Ann Arbor and Northville/Novi are very different places.

Ann Arbor is more liberal and forward-thinking, with people from all over the world. It is very much upper-middle class. There is great walkability throughout the whole city. Great neighborhoods in Ann Arbor to look into include Old West Side and Burns Park, which do have older homes, but have very good walkability to all of downtown Ann Arbor's amenities, as well as the University of Michigan. You will find plenty of parks, playgrounds, and playing fields in these areas. Ann Arbor's more suburban neighborhoods also are family-friendly and walkable. Check out Bryant-Pattengill West. It is about 10 minutes from downtown Ann Arbor, but there are newer homes, as well as great walkability to the Pittsfield Library, Target, Starbucks, Meijer (equivalent to Walmart), etc. There are little parks in most of these neighborhoods, a lot of which have playgrounds. Neighborhoods to look into include Lake Forest and Briar Hill. Houses in this area tend to be a lot cheaper than houses downtown. Ann Arbor schools are excellent, very large, and diverse. There are also private schools in the city, as well as non-traditional public schools such as Ann Arbor Open at Mack and Community High School. If your kids play soccer, I know that there is an i9 sports complex in the Bryant Pattengill West neighborhood with indoor soccer fields, which is where a lot of kids practice and play their games. For business, I can tell you that Ann Arbor has one of the best economies in the state thanks to the University of Michigan.

I cannot say many specifics about Northville and Novi because I have never lived there myself. However, a few things that I am aware of include that Northville and Novi are very family-friendly and tend to be more conservative, with more Midwestern values. Most of the homes in these towns will be newer and in subdivisions. The schools are also outstanding, though they are smaller and less diverse than the schools in Ann Arbor.

As you can see, both are wonderful for raising families and are very safe with great schools. It basically comes down to personal preference and your values. To get a better idea of the area, I recommend making a visit and experiencing each of the areas for yourself.

Welcome to Michigan and best of luck with your move!
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:19 AM
 
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Default Thankyou

Thank you so much for your detailed reply, we plan on making a visit in Feb, so we will check out all of Ann Arbor, Northville and Novie. Believe it or not, I am very excited about the move...most people tell me I am crazy for leaving California, but I am willing to try it out..raising a family here is getting harder and harder. It seems everyone moving to California and it's getting very crowded.
Thank you for your well wishes.
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Old 12-07-2011, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,701 posts, read 79,356,279 times
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Ann Arbor - A city. It is small but bustling. It is very liberal. It tends to get a bad rep becuase many of the more vocal and apparent liberals are the types who are always trying to out liberal each other and are pretentious. It is a college town. There are hoardes of students running around some parts of the city and those areas are good places to avoid for a family. Students tend to wander out into traffic without stopping looking or having any idea where they are. Driving through the campus area is a bit like one of the dodgem video games. Ann Arbor is also a very fun place to be. It is a walking town (driving is awful). There are tons of great neighborhoods, both traditional neighborhoods with calssic hisotic homes and newer McMansion clusters (mostly further out of town). If you have money, the neatest places to live IMO are along the Arboreteum and along some parts of the Huron River (just make sure the house is not too close ot the river). Ann Arbor is an independent cultrual and business center. Most, but not all cuture and business centers on the University. In case you are not aware, U-M is a good sized school that offers many programs ranked in the top 10 in the US. (Law, business, medicine, engineering, musical theater, psychology, I am not sure what all else, but there are a lot of them). Although it is a city, the Huron river offers recreational activities and there are lots of outdoor activities just a few miles outside of the City. The Schools are excellent and the City is surrounded be really neat small towns that also have excellent schools (Chelsea, Dexter, Tecumseh, Saline, Plymouth, a couple of others I am forgetting). When U-M has a home football game it is a crazy place to be. The stadium holds over 100,000 people and it usually sells out, plus a lot of people come and tailgate and do not go to the game (keep in mind that Ann Arbor has about 115,000 people on non-game days). I have always thought that Ann Arbor is one of the coolest cities in the entire United States.

Noprthville - A very quaint historical small town. It is not a city. It is also very liberal for a Michigan small town. Once a small lumber/farming community, it became poular as a suburb of Detroit in the 1980s. It got Yuppified (thousands of yuppies moved in causing a boom in condos and McMansion subdivisions, some parts of the historic downtown were torn down and "modernized") Still it retains a lot of its quaint small town character. It has a lot to offer with a very pleasant downtown, lots of community activities, a great lumberyard, a small villiage of historic buildings, the waterwheel park where a waterwheel that once powered a small Ford Plant still turns and you can fee 1000 ducks. The schools are excellent. They have a huge soccer complex across the street from Mabury State Park just outside of town. Another large sports complex on the Northville/Plymouth border. There are loads of McMansion subdivisions just outside of town. Downtown is mostly historic homes. Northville is really well located for getting to other neat places and you are right in what used to be the country, so it is pretty open. Traffic is bad ue to recent uncontrolled explosive growth and a lack of funds for road repair (Take a ride down Beck Road at the speed limit for a new experience, just do not eat first and be prepared to repair your car afterward). Any l;st of the nicest places to live and/or raise a family in S.E. Michigan will include Northville.

Novi is endless suburbia. There are more malls concentrated there than anywhere I have been. It is all newer subdivisions, loads of Mc Mansion clusters. Loads of shopping opportunities at malls and strip malls. Traffic is bad. Freeway access is a pain becuase the 96/696 and the 275 and the M-5 merge together there and it is a mess. 12 Oaks mall was once the largest shopping mall in the world (back in the 1980s). Before they built the mall, it was just a crossroads. The City grew up around the mall. It is souless suburbia with no downtown and no real sense of identity, but it is very nice souless suburbia and the schools are excellent. If soulelss suburbia is your cup of tea, you cannot do much better than Novi, especially if you like shopping at malls and big stores.
Crime is not really an issue in Northville or Novi. Crime is an issue in parts of Ann Arbor. A lot of it is stupid kid stuff from the college, but there is some serious crime as well. Most of Ann Arbor is pretty safe. You can (and I have) fall asleep on the sidewalk and not be bothered.

All three places have excellent schools, lots of parks, soccer programs etc. Ann Arbor probably has the best housing market as it is more independent from Detroit and the University guarantees a housing need. Ann Arbor has been less impacted b the recession that other S.E. Michigan communities. Northville and Novi have similar housing markets. Northville is a bit more expensive and a bit more popular because of its quaint small town feel. Houses sell slowly, perhaps a bit better than some nearby communities, but it can still take a year or more to sell a home if it is not a bargain. Both Northville and Novie are within a reasonable commute of Ann Arbor. All three are mostly upper middle class. Ann Arbor has a lot more diversity of culture, race and income levels. Ann Arbor has its blue collar and impoverished areas. Northville and Novi not so much (maybe a trailer park somewhere that I am not remembering.) They are all very different places. The choice really depends on the type of lifestyle you prefer. It is not an apples to apples comparison.

We moved from Orange County Ca to Michigan five years ago. Although I grew up just outisde of Northville, we lived in Ca for about 19 years. The big differnces that we noticed:

1. People are less outwardly friendly, but have more depth. It is hard to make friends and neighbors may be initially suspicious, but once they get to know you, they are your friends for ever and they will do anything for you. You do not get evaluated as much by what you drive, wear, where you live, or how much you make, as much as who you are. That is not a 100% difference, it is just somewhat more the case here than there. People do not move around as much here. It is common to meet people who lived in one place for 50 years and their parents lived there or nearby for 50 years etc.

2. Restaurants. Not so many options. Good food is available, but you might have to drive further. (Ann Arbor is loaded with good restaurants). Not as much cultural variety amonst restaurants. More chains. No waiting.

3. Driving. 60 miles is 60 minutes unless there is a weather problem. Traffic is laughable unless you are going North out of Detroit at 5 - 6 p.m. or you are in Ann Arbor when something is going on. Novi and Northville get a it of traffic during rush hours and weekends as well. However compared to OC, traffic is laughable.

4. Activities. Different activities are common. Golf is big here. In fact I think there are more golf courses per mile in SE Michigan than anywhere. However shooting is even more popular. Hunting is huge and the first day of deer season is pretty much a State holiday. Winter is a different animal. You need to embrace winter sports. There are no mountains. Skiing is a joke. However cross country skiing, snowmobiling, ice fishing, ice boating Hockey, sledding, snowshoeing and up north dog sledding are popular. You have to learn to embrace winter. If you just wait it out, you are throwing away half your life.

Outdoor activities are huge. Lakes and rivers are everywhere so canoeing, kayaking, and watersports are big. Hiking, hunting, camoping are also very big. The beach on the West Side of Michigan are beautiful. The water is clear but often cold. You only have a month or two of decent beach weather, but the beaches are prettier than most CA beaches.

5. Cars. Outside of Ann Arbor, you do not see as many cars that are not from the former big 3. They are few and far between. Ann Arbor is Prius territory. It is significant enough that when people see a foreign car, they often comment on it, especially BMW, Ferrari, Porsche, Mercedes. If we see a Prius we wonder what he is doing so far from Ann Arbor.

6. It is very green and very pretty here. The air is clean, the water is clean. There is a tremendous amount of open space. It is very very green. Fall is absolutely incredible. It is hard to describe, but it is not like anything you can compare. Winter is neat, but too long. You will get sick of cold, darkness and clouds by February. You still have two months to go. Clear winter days are unbelievably clear and crisp. If there is no wind, it is fantastic. It rains a lot. The weather changes constantly. Sometimes it can change 50 degrees in 24 hours. I have worn shorts and a ski parka on the same day.

As a side note: You do nto need to be cold. Get the right stuff. A remote starter for your vehicles ($50 for a cheap one). A good coat, ht gloves, warm socks and boots. If you are prepared, it is possibly to never be cold. If you are not prepared you can freeze your tail off. Even in the summer, you should keep a jacket in your car.



7. It is more formal here than in California. You will need a sport coat or two if you do not have them. When I wore a Hawaiian shirt to a service club meeting several people asked me if I had lost a bet.

8. Anywhere except Ann Arbor or Royal Oak, you really need to plan what you are going to do. This is especially important in Detroit. You cannot just go somewhere and wander around and see what there is to do. There are some really neat places, but you have to know where they are, you will not just stumble onto them and (In Detroit) you might stumble onto a place where you should not be.


If you come with the right attitude, you will love it here.
Welcome.
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Old 12-08-2011, 10:37 AM
 
Location: S-E Michigan
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Default Only one addition/comment

You can embrace winter not only by being active in the outdoors, but also by being seasonally active with a time consuming indoor activity/hobby. If you have ever siad "I really should learn how to do that", winter time in Michigan is a great opportunity to learn and practice - provided it isn't fly fishing or something similar.
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Old 12-08-2011, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,701 posts, read 79,356,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MI-Roger View Post
You can embrace winter not only by being active in the outdoors, but also by being seasonally active with a time consuming indoor activity/hobby. If you have ever siad "I really should learn how to do that", winter time in Michigan is a great opportunity to learn and practice - provided it isn't fly fishing or something similar.
Hot air ballooning does not work well as an indoor hobby. Kite flying and RC airplanes are also pretty much out.
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:51 AM
 
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Thank you sooo much for your detailed and thoughtful response. I love that you moved from California, so we can relate. Do you regret leaving California? Do you find the quality of life better in Michigan?
I am looking forward to experiencing season:-)) Thank you
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Old 12-21-2011, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,701 posts, read 79,356,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amomoffour View Post
Thank you sooo much for your detailed and thoughtful response. I love that you moved from California, so we can relate. Do you regret leaving California? Do you find the quality of life better in Michigan?
I am looking forward to experiencing season:-)) Thank you
Yes and Yes.


There are times when we regret moving and there are times when we are glad we moved. The quality of life is better in many ways.

We also find that what we like better in each place differences from person to person.

My wife hated the CA weather. She found it boring. The constant dryness was bad for her asthma. The Santa Ana winds made her miserable. I miss the weather. Some of our kids are appalled b the Michigan weather. some like it better.

In part the differences will depend on where you go. Ann Arbor is more like So Cal. it is busy, there are tons of neat things to do, good places to eat all grouped together. It is liberal and diverse. There are long lines, people want to tell you how you should think. The materialism and competitiveness is not as bad in Ann Arbor as in So. Cal. It is more prevalent than many other areas of MI, but not so bad.

In many areas the social focus is more set on helping each other out than on proving that one is better, smarter, more successful than the people around them. That is an improvement. However some areas are much more California Ish in that way than other area.

Outside of Ann Arbor, you have to go further to find stuff (good restaurants that are not chains, plays, concerts, certain church activities or styles, weirdos to look at, etc.

We do not much miss the beaches. We have the Detroit river in our front yard and can jump in a canoe any time we want. Eventually we will be abel to jump in a boat and shoot out to Lake Erie in a matter of minutes. Although a long drive, the Western Michigan beaches are far prettier than California's ocean beaches, but still it is not the ocean (colder, no surf, shallower, no dolphins, no wierdos). (I like wierdo watching)

You must learn to embrace winter. Find something that you like. This winter has been super mild so far. I like to have snow at elast for a while. Winter is long long long and the daylight is short. Go to work in the dark and come home in the dark. That is probably the worst part of it. Cold crisp sunny days with no wind are wonderful. winter sports are a blast.

We do not have mountains and even the best downhill ski places are a joke. I probably miss the mountains most out of everything. (Except maybe my career. My Career was set back probably 15 years from the move).

Our dogs especially love the cold. One dog (now dead) was old and we did not think he would survive the trip. HE rarely got up off the floor. After we moved, he started acting like a puppy, especially when it was cold. Our current dogs (one is getting old) also perk up and get lively and playful when it gets cold outside.

It is a more wholesome place. There is less emphasis on what you wear, drive, live in ect and more emphasis on who you are. Hard work is highly valued socially. People are less openley friendly, but also less shallow and fleeting. Friendships are hard won and long lasting. Many many people love to do anything they can to help you out even tot he point of personal sacrifice. It is kind of a science amongst many people here.

Cool quaint small towns abound. Small town living is where Michigan is really at its best. Some of the larger richer areas are just Irvine Wannabes. Small towns where millionairs and people on assistance sit together in the doughnut shop and discuss the best fishing spots, baits etc, are where you find the most striking difference to the CA lifestyle.

Michigan is very segregated racially. Even by cultures traditionally considered white. Middle eastern people congregate in Dearborn. Slavic/polish people in Hamtrammack and Downriver, asian people in certain areas of North Oakland County, Jewish people in other specific areas. It is not complete segregation. You find some of all kinds of people everywhere, but many of the nicer towns and suburbs are 90+ % white. Diversity does nto matter to me. I do not care what color skin my neighbors have as long as they are nice. To some people skin color is really important and they only want ot live in areas with a certain percentage of various skin colors. It is hard to find much mixing here.
Ignore the negative nellies who say Downtown Detroit is horrid and you will be killed if you go there. They have not been downtown in 20 years if ever. Downtown is fine. It is also a fun place if you know where to go. It is certain areas around downtown that are very unsafe and give the city its bad statistics and reputation.

A lot of things are different. Some are better, some are worse. There are trees (forests of them) You will marvel at how green it gets in the spring and summer. There is water everywhere and it is clean. The air is cleaner. Pretty much everyhting is cleaner (probably becuase of the 10cent deposit on cans and bottles. A lot mor epeople here smoke, but it is now illegal in restaurants theaters,etc (tank heavens). IN general people are less apt to mind your business and tell you what you should think. IN general, people are far more apt to stop and help if your car breaks down.
Driving is different. Roads are terrible, Tailgating is an art form. IN general people are more in control of their vehicle and in touch with what is going on, but more aggressive.

Styles and dress is far more formal and it is different. IN CA i had not use for a sport coat (pretty much suits or shorts and Hawaiian shirts that was it). Here, I need two or three sport coats and if I wear a Hawaiian shirt, people ask me if I lost a bet.

IN Ca if you drive a crummy car, people turn their noses up at you. Here, if you drive a crummy car, people offer to fix it. I once got pulled over for having a headlight out and instead of a ticket, the cop fixed the headlight for me. that does nto happen everyehwere. Some communities use tickets to generate income.

Many many people tend to be negative in their comments. How are you? is not always the best question to ask. Beautiful day isn't it? is safer. A lot of people do nothing but whine and complain. Just avoid them, or deal with it. Many of them are otherwise very nice people. They are not a amjority, but tend to be very vocal.

Public Schools are generally better than in CA, specially at the high school and college levels.

Signs, telephone greetings, radio, voting information, newspapers, etc are pretty universally entirely in English. No push 3 for English here. that may or may not matter to you but it is different.

Lots of open spaces here. As you move away from SE Michigan it is more open than occupied. It is easy to obtain an acre of land to live on and many people have several or several hundred acres up north.

Learn to shoot. Even if you do not kill things, you will eventually want to be able to shoot skeet or targets. It is bigger than golf around here. Most people hunt. I suppoe that I will eventually go on hunts and just intentionally miss. I have no interesting killing anything. They can joke about what a bad shot I am. However a lot of social interation is built around hunting, especially amongst men. Opening day for deer hunting is virtually a state holiday. Some places even shut down.

Like any generalization these have multitudes of exceptions. While the differences are noticeable as I reflected, you do not find these things everywhere you go. Some places are no different that CA except the weather.
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:10 PM
 
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I'm originally from NY and lived in Florida for 3 years before moving to Northville in 2008. At first, I thought, oh no ... what did we do moving to Michigan. Thought we'd be here a year or two, then move on. We have come to love it here. Glad we settled in Northville.

Northville is a fantastic town to raise a family. I'll admit that there is a little bit of keeping up with Jones's, but I have found people to be quite friendly and down to earth. Can't say the same for where I was born and raised. The schools here are great (look on greatschools.net, pretty much all 9's and 10's). The town sports programs are great as well. It's not just soccer and little league baseball. They have clinics to develop skills in many sports. It was not as easy to make friends here as in a melting pot like Florida, but once you do, you will have a friend that truly cares about you. I have found most people to be honest, hard working, and good hearted.

I like both Ann Arbor and Novi as well. Ann Arbor is consumed by the University of Michigan. I have heard people refer to it as Berkley east. Good place to visit and if I were 21 again, I'd want to be there. Also, best pizza (N.Y.P.D. - NY Pizza Depot) and great deli (Zingermans). Both very important to this NY guy.

Novi - very similar to Northville without a downtown. In lieu of a downtown, you get lots of great shopping and chain restaurants.

The beauty of Northville is some hills (think small), trees, lots of parks and trails, and quaint downtown while being in close proximity of Novi and Plymouth with Ann Arbor just 15 miles away.

Say goodbye to smooth roads. Though, it's slowly getting better. Economically, Now that the big 3 are in better shape, the housing market is stabilized and even improving.

Worth checking out Plymouth too. Great downtown. Lots to do and very family friendly.
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:21 PM
 
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One more thing on Northville, the big hill on the west side of town (6 mile west of ridge road) is a landfill. If you live within a mile of it, you will likely smell it occassionally. Don't let that deter you from Northville. There is a reason why this town is so popular. (see my prior post)

I just re-read your post. We lived in a master planned community in FL and liked it. There really isn't much of that in MI (live/work/play/shop). However, these old towns are on par with this type of living and in some ways better. More authentic. In town, there are many old homes rehabbed to new or like new. Many subs in Northville Township can reach downtown via a bike trail. Yes, there is a Starbucks downtown. But just about everything else is locally owned (which is a good thing).

Last edited by Pinstripes1; 01-02-2012 at 09:00 PM..
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