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I go to Dearborn... can't stand the uppity, pompous, premadonnas at AA.
That is all.
I noticed a lot of that, too, when I was there. Don't worry though, they'll all soon find out once they graduate into the rat race that is Corporate America that no one gives a hoot that they went to a top tier university for undergrad. Despite whether or not it's a great academic institution, most people, out of their own insecurity or just plain indifference, will not acknowledge it when you're trying to find employment. This has just been my experience.
Nonetheless, it's a great accomplishment if you get in. But in the end, the only one who will end up caring is you and probably your parents. The rest of society will not care one bit.
One thing that annoys me, though, about Ann Arbor, is the arrogance. I don't get it. It's never even ranked nationally in the Top 25, yet a typical Michigan grad is more arrogant than the typical Harvard grad. I don't think Michigan grads are aware there are many top schools out there, and Michigan is nowhere near the top of the list nationally.
Michigan accepts something like half its applicants. Ivy League places like Harvard and Columbia accept like 5% of their applicants. Yet I guarantee the Michigan grad will be super upfront and in-your-face about their alma mater, and the Harvard or Columbia grad will be totally blase.
The arrogance from the grads is one thing. I personally don't even care that I went there anymore. Nobody else seems to, why should I? But you're wrong about whether UM-AA was ranked in the top 25. If you're referring to US World News, it was ranked 25th in the entire country (private and public unis) when I was attending. It has dropped a few places since I graduated in 2008. It's often ranked in the top 5 for public unis (Top Public Schools | Rankings | Top National Universities | US News). And in some cases, it's listed in the top 20 for worldwide universities (Top universities by reputation 2013 - Times Higher Education).
And they do typically admit a large pool of their applicants, but that pool is from around the world. The average GPA for incoming freshman is something along the lines of 3.8 or higher.
One thing that annoys me, though, about Ann Arbor, is the arrogance. I don't get it. It's never even ranked nationally in the Top 25, yet a typical Michigan grad is more arrogant than the typical Harvard grad. I don't think Michigan grads are aware there are many top schools out there, and Michigan is nowhere near the top of the list nationally.
Michigan accepts something like half its applicants. Ivy League places like Harvard and Columbia accept like 5% of their applicants. Yet I guarantee the Michigan grad will be super upfront and in-your-face about their alma mater, and the Harvard or Columbia grad will be totally blase.
Depends on what you mean top...
Top 10% of all universities in the country? Maybe in 1820 they were outside the top 10%. Today, there are 2,774 4 year universities in the US. UM has been in the top 1% for the last 30 years, at least...
You, then, have to look at the program. 2 years ago, Michigan had the best architecture program in the country. And, if you want to go to a public school in Michigan for architecture, it's your only choice. The other 3 accredited schools are private (LTU, UDM, Andrews).
Michigan has the #3 undergrad business program (US News). Harvard? They don't have an undergrad business school... Columbia? No undergrad program either. MIT is #2 though.
Supply chain management? MSU is the best program in the country (not just US News, this is pretty well known )
Art? I don't think Michigan even offers a BFA. Neither does Harvard. Harvard would be an awful choice for fine art - they don't have an art department, at least Michigan has some studio space. Someplace like RISD or Cranbrook blows both schools out of the water.
Michigan accepts 40% of applicants. Michigan also receives 30k+ applications. ~5400 people come in as freshmen every year.
Harvard accepts 8% of applicants. For 2013, they received 27,500 applications, they only enrolled 1600. Harvard is MUCH smaller than U of M. The entire Harvard undergraduate population is the size of a single undergrad class at Michigan.
So, Harvard and Michigan get almost the same number of applications, but Harvard only 1/4 the room. Michigan has to accept 4x as many students as Harvard just to keep the doors open. 8 x 4 is pretty close to 40. The exact same story happens at Columbia.
Yes, of course I am referring to the US World News rankings, and, yes, they are not in the Top 25, and haven't been in the Top 25 for many years.
I get that there are many other rankings systems out there, but the US News ranking is the most well-known and followed, and, again, U-M doesn't crack the Top 25 (25th generally considered the minimum for "top tier" ranking).
Generally speaking U-M does better on the other rankings because they look at grad programs (where U-M is much stronger) and they don't look at things like admissions rates (where U-M is comparatively weak).
And the reason I brought it up is just with the generall arrogance, "Leaders and Best" ridiculousness. They admit half their applicants, yet they are the first to mention their school. I don't quite get it, because there are dozens of schools with equal or better reputations, and I haven't found such attitudes from other schools (and I used to work in a very heavy Ivy League and elite small college work environment in Manhattan).
Yes, of course I am referring to the US World News rankings, and, yes, they are not in the Top 25, and haven't been in the Top 25 for many years.
I get that there are many other rankings systems out there, but the US News ranking is the most well-known and followed, and, again, U-M doesn't crack the Top 25 (25th generally considered the minimum for "top tier" ranking).
Generally speaking U-M does better on the other rankings because they look at grad programs (where U-M is much stronger) and they don't look at things like admissions rates (where U-M is comparatively weak).
And the reason I brought it up is just with the generall arrogance, "Leaders and Best" ridiculousness. They admit half their applicants, yet they are the first to mention their school. I don't quite get it, because there are dozens of schools with equal or better reputations, and I haven't found such attitudes from other schools (and I used to work in a very heavy Ivy League and elite small college work environment in Manhattan).
Well, it was undoubtedly ranked in the top 25 just five years ago. Now it's in something of a six way tie between 25th and 29th. It's one thing to criticize overly arrogant individuals that went to a particular school, it's another thing to falsely deny where the school ranks as a whole. All you have to do is look at the data (http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/c...l?schoolId=379). Top-30 is still definitely considered top tier, considering how many schools are in that ranking system. And for someone to ignore the fact that there are just as many arrogant people coming out of UC Berkeley, USC, UVA, MIT, Harvard, Yale, etc. is a display of willful ignorance. I don't think I've met as many arrogant grads as I have out of the UC system. Honestly, go to the Education boards and see how many UC-system grads are on there boasting about their superiority.
Personally, someone who comes across as vehemently opposed to something as you typically indicates that there is bad blood. Did you get passed up for a job due to a UM grad? Did you get denied admission to UM? Again, usually when someone is so opposed to something, there is more to the story. Why are you so opposed to recognizing UM's ranking as a top tier university worldwide?
Personally, someone who comes across as vehemently opposed to something as you typically indicates that there is bad blood. Did you get passed up for a job due to a UM grad? Did you get denied admission to UM? Again, usually when someone is so opposed to something, there is more to the story. Why are you so opposed to recognizing UM's ranking as a top tier university worldwide?
This is exactly what I was thinking when I read his post. My experience has been that so many college students that live in this area and would kill to get into Ann Arbor but know that they never could because of grades, test scores, etc. take on a sort of "eh, who would even want to go to Ann Arbor, just a bunch of snobs, I wouldn't go there if I had to!" kind of attitude to mask that they are actually deeply bitter about not having the opportunity to go there. It seems to be worse in people who know that they destroyed their own chances by slacking off in high school. I'm not saying that every college student, or even the majority of them, wish they were at Ann Arbor, and I know that a lot of people just don't feel that it would be a good fit for them (too big, too far to drive, doesn't offer their major, etc.) just saying that there seem to be a lot who would be there if they could and resent it because they can't.
Last edited by canudigit; 04-15-2013 at 08:28 AM..
Well, it was undoubtedly ranked in the top 25 just five years ago. Now it's in something of a six way tie between 25th and 29th. It's one thing to criticize overly arrogant individuals that went to a particular school, it's another thing to falsely deny where the school ranks as a whole.
You are falsely denying where the school ranks. Again, Michigan is not in the Top 25. Yes, there are hundreds of rankings out there, and you can cherry pick a few to prove otherwise, but US News is the main ranking system, and the fact you're ignoring the primary ranking system is telling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekkie
Personally, someone who comes across as vehemently opposed to something as you typically indicates that there is bad blood. Did you get passed up for a job due to a UM grad? Did you get denied admission to UM? Again, usually when someone is so opposed to something, there is more to the story. Why are you so opposed to recognizing UM's ranking as a top tier university worldwide?
This is just silly and speaks to the arrogance I'm referring to. I don't think folks from most other universities would say such a thing. Obviously US News and World Report editors have a grudge too, right? Maybe they weren't accepted to U-M, and had to "settle" for the Ivy League.
In case you're interested, I was accepted to U-M Honors for undergrad (LSA) and to the law school, but I attended other schools. But why does it matter? If I were rejected, and living homeless on the streets, how would it change anything re. the U-M ranking?
I'm not "so opposed to recognizing U-M's ranking". I am reporting U-M's actual ranking, and made no claim as to whether it's a top-tier university or not. It's the sycophants on this thread that, feeling threatened, extrapolate this as an attack on U-M, and so make personal attacks.
This is exactly what I was thinking when I read his post. My experience has been that so many college students that live in this area and would kill to get into Ann Arbor but know that they never could because of grades, test scores, etc. take on a sort of "eh, who would even want to go to Ann Arbor, just a bunch of snobs, I wouldn't go there if I had to!" kind of attitude to mask that they are actually deeply bitter about not having the opportunity to go there.
More of the same. Michigan's acceptance rate is almost 50%. Elite universities have a 5% acceptance rate. There are many, many dozens of universities in the U.S. with acceptance rates below 25%. Almost every major university in the U.S. Top 50, and almost every small college in the U.S. Top 25 has a lower acceptance rate than U-M.
Do you really think there is some vast conspiracy against U-M consisting of rejected applicants, when the overall admission rate is nearly half, and more elite schools accept one in twenty?
Here's a list of some selected acceptance rates in recent years. See how U-M stacks up.
I think U-M is very good, BTW. I would be very happy if either of my kids went there, undergrad or grad. But I really do think there's this culture of unrivaled arrogance, and this thread kind of confirms it. That's what I don't get.
You are falsely denying where the school ranks. Again, Michigan is not in the Top 25. Yes, there are hundreds of rankings out there, and you can cherry pick a few to prove otherwise, but US News is the main ranking system, and the fact you're ignoring the primary ranking system is telling.
This is just silly and speaks to the arrogance I'm referring to. I don't think folks from most other universities would say such a thing. Obviously US News and World Report editors have a grudge too, right? Maybe they weren't accepted to U-M, and had to "settle" for the Ivy League.
In case you're interested, I was accepted to U-M Honors for undergrad (LSA) and to the law school, but I attended other schools. But why does it matter? If I were rejected, and living homeless on the streets, how would it change anything re. the U-M ranking?
I'm not "so opposed to recognizing U-M's ranking". I am reporting U-M's actual ranking, and made no claim as to whether it's a top-tier university or not. It's the sycophants on this thread that, feeling threatened, extrapolate this as an attack on U-M, and so make personal attacks.
I don't buy it. There's something more that you're not telling us. There might be some UM grads that are boisterously arrogant, but you will find that at just about any school. You'd just rather not acknowledge that, because it seems to me you have an agenda.
If you want to ignore statistical facts pointing to the quality of UM's academic make up, have at it. Go ahead and "feel" anyway you want about it. It is still recognized as a top national university in this country and in the world. I know this doesn't coincide with how you "feel", but that's the reality of it. And guess what, I have no problem admitting that there are much better institutions out there. Northwestern, UC Berkeley, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, Georgetown...I would have much rather went to UChicago myself, as it probably has the best economics program in the country. But going to Michigan, in and of itself, was enough of an accomplishment for me, as people at my school either didn't go to college or went to the local community college.
Five years ago, UM was ranked 25th in the nation; it is ranked 29th (four whole spots it fell, oh my!!!)
It is ranked #4 out of the public universities.
According to this ranking, it is ranked 12th in the entire world. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...gher-education)
According to the link I provided earlier (not that you bothered to look at it), UM's admission rate was around 37%. Average GPA for those admitted was 3.8. 72% of enrolled freshman had a 3.75 or higher. The range for the middle 50% ACT scores was between 28-32.
Again, I'm not denying that you met some arrogant grads from UM. For that, I apologize on behalf of all of us. However, you are making an effort to deny that this school has a stellar academic reputation, and that is simply not true. That is what I take issue with. The facts, the stats, and the general consensus are all against what you're trying to prove here.
More of the same. Michigan's acceptance rate is almost 50%. Elite universities have a 5% acceptance rate. There are many, many dozens of universities in the U.S. with acceptance rates below 25%. Almost every major university in the U.S. Top 50, and almost every small college in the U.S. Top 25 has a lower acceptance rate than U-M.
Do you really think there is some vast conspiracy against U-M consisting of rejected applicants, when the overall admission rate is nearly half, and more elite schools accept one in twenty?
Here's a list of some selected acceptance rates in recent years. See how U-M stacks up.
I think U-M is very good, BTW. I would be very happy if either of my kids went there, undergrad or grad. But I really do think there's this culture of unrivaled arrogance, and this thread kind of confirms it. That's what I don't get.
You're talking about elite PRIVATE institutions. UM is a PUBLICLY-FUNDED school, they don't have the luxury of only accepting the top 1% of all high school graduates like Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, MIT, Georgetown, UChicago, etc.
And when did acceptance rates alone become indicative of the academic reputation of the school? Look at the quality of those admitted.
In addition, you have to consider the research that comes out of the school. UM is constantly contributing quality research to the public domain.
You want to discuss arrogance? Go to any state and there is always some level of arrogance regarding the school you attended. In Georgia, there's a saying. What do Georgia State grads say to Georgia Tech grads? Would you like fries with that?
I live in Colorado as of now, and their prestigious school is either CU-Boulder or University of Denver. They always pester the CSU grads for going to an inferior school.
Some grads might have an over-zealous sense of arrogance, and I don't condone that, no matter what it is you're arrogant about. No one likes an arrogant d-bag. But for the most part, most people I've come across just have a playful sense of arrogance, especially when you are talking about UM and MSU grads. Everyone knows UM grads are far superior than MSU grads.
Last edited by Tekkie; 04-16-2013 at 08:36 AM..
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