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Old 07-09-2012, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
28,086 posts, read 14,355,464 times
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If you look at the South Bend streetview, the houses are rather setback from the street, especially considering how close together the houses. It's combination you don't get much of here (houses close together, but far from the street). Here, the houses of that era are setback 10 feet, maybe 15 feet most. The distance from the street might make front porch to street social interaction harder.

Looks like other South Bend block have houses less setback, suggesting in that area larger setback was considered upscale.
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Far from where I'd like to be
25,437 posts, read 31,935,289 times
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Hey ... There's a front porch on one of those houses.
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:11 PM
 
11,032 posts, read 9,547,747 times
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http://historicbuildingsct.com/wp-co...sell-house.jpg

Frank Lloyd Write had nothing to do with the design of this house, which is a Federalist style home.

Often stone farm houses in PA have a side porch also.

What I'm trying to say is that I don't think he "turned the porch" and changed the fabric of American society.
I think that is simplistic and reductionist.

I happen to rank custom built mid century modern homes among my favorite homes - especially in a woodland setting with walls of glass and light. The craftsman or prairie home is a coat tail cousin to FLW s style as is the four square home - all favorites of mine. And most of them have FRONT PORCHES. Although I have seen some Four Squares with a a side porch - open or enclosed.

I do like front porches, but in terms of "builders for the people", or "Vernacular homes",demand for them shot way down after WWII.

Fist came the Cape Cod house and ranch, followed by the Split Level , none of which sported front porches.

By the mid sixties lower end mass produced homes tended to be raised ranches or High Ranches, with a split entry foyer, or Splanches, which one seldom hears about today, that the lord.

All of the three later styles were built with attached garages that faced the front.

Moving one price range up the socioeconomic ladder, from the mid 1960s on, the neo colonial reined supreme, especially in the custom built market. These homes were still being built through the early 1980s and mostly featured
four or five bedrooms, a center hall design and a narrow front porch.

My parents built one in 1964 and it's the house that I grew up in. It had a front porch, and they put two old fashioned rocking chairs on it but we used the patio (now a deck) that surrounded the pool.

Interestingly, my parents opted to "turn the garage" for aesthetic reasons.

Unless everyone's been living under a rock for the past 20 years, ever hear of the McMansion? That's pretty much what replaced the neo-Colonial, and mostly they had/ have a neo-Victorian design.

AND huge wrap around front porches! ....that are seldom used.
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:15 PM
 
11,032 posts, read 9,547,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamofmonterey View Post
I agree. The McMansion styles and front loading garages are hideous, the house has no style, and emphasizes a storage/ garage



Ugly.
I would take a FLW house over these cookie cutter houses anyday.
I would to Dream, any day of the week. YUK!
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
14,468 posts, read 15,840,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
In my hometown, most men worked shift in some steel mill or other heavy industry. Even if they worked "daylight", they came home tired. They were not necessarily interested in sitting out and schmoozing with the neighbors, offering them lemonade night after night. The Pittsburgh Pirates games were a big attraction in the summer. They were on the radio if at home (and in the early 50s there were no portable radios), and sometimes on TV if away. This was the situation across most of the idustrial northeast and midwest, with different baseball teams, of course.

The homemaker, or "housewife" as they were called then, couldn't just pop the dishes in the dishwasher after dinner and go sit out on the porch, either. She had to wash the dishes, by hand, or get one of the kids to do it. She also had to clean up (Pittsburghers say 'red up') the house and get things ready for the next day.

Yes, some nights people did sit out on the front porch, or the back porch for a bit, and people did go for walks after dinner. You'd see a few neighbors out; you'd stop and chat. My neighborhood is like this today, as I posted previously. I don't think society has changed *all* that much in that regard.
I dont think "death of the front porch" can be blamed on FLW.

Some people like them, some dont.
Probably years ago people were alot more social , and there was more a sense of community, and socializing with neighbors.

remember the "Truman show"?. The film was partially made in Celebration, Florida where communities were built to resemble the old-time 1940's, 50's houses with porches, etc.




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Old 07-09-2012, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
8,184 posts, read 5,262,701 times
Reputation: 5997
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
http://historicbuildingsct.com/wp-co...sell-house.jpg

Frank Lloyd Write had nothing to do with the design of this house, which is a Federalist style home.

Often stone farm houses in PA have a side porch also.

What I'm trying to say is that I don't think he "turned the porch" and changed the fabric of American society.
I think that is simplistic and reductionist.

I happen to rank custom built mid century modern homes among my favorite homes - especially in a woodland setting with walls of glass and light. The craftsman or prairie home is a coat tail cousin to FLW s style as is the four square home - all favorites of mine. And most of them have FRONT PORCHES. Although I have seen some Four Squares with a a side porch - open or enclosed.

I do like front porches, but in terms of "builders for the people", or "Vernacular homes",demand for them shot way down after WWII.

Fist came the Cape Cod house and ranch, followed by the Split Level , none of which sported front porches.

By the mid sixties lower end mass produced homes tended to be raised ranches or High Ranches, with a split entry foyer, or Splanches, which one seldom hears about today, that the lord.

All of the three later styles were built with attached garages that faced the front.

Moving one price range up the socioeconomic ladder, from the mid 1960s on, the neo colonial reined supreme, especially in the custom built market. These homes were still being built through the early 1980s and mostly featured
four or five bedrooms, a center hall design and a narrow front porch.

My parents built one in 1964 and it's the house that I grew up in. It had a front porch, and they put two old fashioned rocking chairs on it but we used the patio (now a deck) that surrounded the pool.

Interestingly, my parents opted to "turn the garage" for aesthetic reasons.

Unless everyone's been living under a rock for the past 20 years, ever hear of the McMansion? That's pretty much what replaced the neo-Colonial, and mostly they had/ have a neo-Victorian design.

AND huge wrap around front porches! ....that are seldom used.
McMansion design depends on local. Wrap around porches here are extremely uncommon. Everything is built on slab. The architecture is often called "neo-eclectic" which is suiting as it's really a smorgasbord of stuff packed into cheap mass construction with no apparent rhyme or reason. Exhibit 1: Tuscan Villa, found predominantly in suburban American. Don't know what's Tuscan about a stucco-clad OSB suburban home or how it captures the spirit of the Renaissance...
4080 Kingsbarns Dr, Roseville, CA 95747 | MLS# 12031319

Not really McMansion, not gaudy enough, but man does that dormer window look stupid. I wonder if it's blind? Or maybe to an upstairs landing? If blind, I think that qualifies it as McMansion alone.
3150 Orchard Park Ct, Loomis, CA 95650 | MLS# 12040055

Okay, so it's got Prairie roof (a bit exaggerated and tasteless, would help if the roof was at least somewhat cohesive) and a half-assed attempt at Craftsman (although I don't know that drywall and veneer cabinets qualify)...
4506 Carmen Dr, El Dorado Hills, CA 95762 | MLS# 12032196
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:59 PM
Status: "Happy Thanksgiving Week!" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
69,693 posts, read 59,919,961 times
Reputation: 19992
Quote:
Originally Posted by claud605 View Post
great blog post...I especially liked this part, I think it does a great job of encapsulating the whole underlying theme of this thread, FLW or no FLW:

"But as we grew prosperous, we lost trust in one another. As we found diversity, we lost our sense of community. And as we gained freedom to do as we wished, we lost some of the very foundation upon which that freedom was founded: love of one another."

It's funny, my friend and I were JUST yesterday discussing this...she was telling me how she read an article a couple decades ago and they were saying that houses of the future would all have no front porches, kitchens in the back, and big back decks. The backyard would be the oasis from the harsh world. Seems to have happened. I remember as a kid all we did was hang out on the porch and people watch, talk to neighbors, eat cantaloupe and watermelon when it was so hot, I don't know maybe the prevalence of a/c DOES have a lot to do with it too. I'd love to read some books on it, anyone have any suggestions? I Just requested the bowling alone one from the library.
AFAIK, the preponderance of houses have always had the kitchen in the back, or else in an outbuilding in the yard. There are a few houses around here, built in the 1980s, that have front facing kitchens, but they are the exception, not the rule.

The living room, front room, parlor or whatever you want to call it was almost always right inside the front door. That is where one received guests, back in the good old days. Even now, it's the first thing people see when they come to your front door. The kitchen is in back, where the work is being done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
This explains a few things. From what I've seen of his houses, they tend to be dark inside, and someone here mentioned low ceilings and small windows. Who wants to live in a cave? Like so many of his creations, the houses look nice from the outside, but look uncomfortable to live in.

Take the house, "Falling Water". This is one of the most celebrated designs of his career, but the finished product was the exact opposite of what his clients had asked for (and paid a pretty penny for!). They asked for a house that would allow them to view from the home the beautiful waterfall on their property. Instead, he built a house on top of the waterfall, so it was hidden from view! wtf??! Can't the guy follow instructions? I'd have sued if I were that couple! And the house proved to be unlivable, because of the glass walls. It was impossible to heat and cool. I read the couple sold it. They couldn't live in it, and they couldn't enjoy the waterfall, so what was the point of it all?

There was a tendency in his work to completely disregard the practical, and go for flashy design. Like the office building with the pillars that looked a little mushroom-shaped. The roof leaked constantly, and the office staff had to work with buckets placed all around the columns to catch the drips. This guy had a lot to learn about basic engineering. The flat roofs he was known for were completely impractical and prone to leaks in climates that had either heavy winter snowpacks, or heavy rains.

I consider him to be an embarrassment.
The Kaufmanns were aware that FLW was building the house over the waterfall. They did not sell Fallingwater. They are buried at a mausoleum near there. Their son inherited the house and donated it to the Western Pennsylvania Conservancy.

Fallingwater - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://tribalpages.com/family-tree/edgarjkaufmann

Last edited by Katiana; 07-09-2012 at 05:09 PM..
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Old 07-09-2012, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
28,086 posts, read 14,355,464 times
Reputation: 8876
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
McMansion design depends on local. Wrap around porches here are extremely uncommon. Everything is built on slab. The architecture is often called "neo-eclectic" which is suiting as it's really a smorgasbord of stuff packed into cheap mass construction with no apparent rhyme or reason. Exhibit 1: Tuscan Villa, found predominantly in suburban American. Don't know what's Tuscan about a stucco-clad OSB suburban home or how it captures the spirit of the Renaissance...
4080 Kingsbarns Dr, Roseville, CA 95747 | MLS# 12031319

Not really McMansion, not gaudy enough, but man does that dormer window look stupid. I wonder if it's blind? Or maybe to an upstairs landing? If blind, I think that qualifies it as McMansion alone.
3150 Orchard Park Ct, Loomis, CA 95650 | MLS# 12040055

Okay, so it's got Prairie roof (a bit exaggerated and tasteless, would help if the roof was at least somewhat cohesive) and a half-assed attempt at Craftsman (although I don't know that drywall and veneer cabinets qualify)...
4506 Carmen Dr, El Dorado Hills, CA 95762 | MLS# 12032196
Here's a modern McMansion with a wraparound porch, or at least a front porch can't really tell from this photo.

9 Godfrey Ln, Huntington, NY 11743 MLS# 2495049 - Zillow

They're common among the Neo-Victorian McMansion variety. McMansion does not mean cheap they're the most expensive (look at the price!) homes you can get in the area.
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Old 07-09-2012, 05:18 PM
 
25,156 posts, read 27,044,066 times
Reputation: 34333
Quote:
Originally Posted by imcurious View Post
I saw a film about Frank Lloyd Wright a few years ago, in which he was credited with changing front porches to side porches.

As soon as I saw this, I realized that he alone was responsible for ruining much of what was good about American culture . . .as I understand it, when different minorities came to New York, they would sit on their front porches and stoops and engage with each other. The porch aesthetic was alive and well in the Midwest, too, until Frank Lloyd Wright turned houses sideways and put the front porch on the side . . .I believe that was the beginning of "suburbia isolation."
No. You go into old towns such as Charleston and Savannah where side porches were prevalent (People were taxed based on the length of their front porches back then) and there were no social problems.

Instead, I would argue that television is the destroyer of communities, not the location of the porch.
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Old 07-09-2012, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
8,184 posts, read 5,262,701 times
Reputation: 5997
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Here's a modern McMansion with a wraparound porch, or at least a front porch can't really tell from this photo.

9 Godfrey Ln, Huntington, NY 11743 MLS# 2495049 - Zillow

They're common among the Neo-Victorian McMansion variety. McMansion does not mean cheap — they're the most expensive (look at the price!) homes you can get in the area.
See, I actually kind of like that. The interior isn't my taste, but it looks decent.

Here's one with a porch, back porch though more like a patio.
4520 Dietz Way, Fair Oaks, CA 95628 | MLS# 12024044

4520 Dietz Way, Fair O... - Google Maps

.. Front porches just aren't common here. You see them on a lot of the old houses ~1880-1920, almost never wrap around, bungalows were in vogue then. What's common here is "Tuscan/Mediterranean" style, back porches/patios and balconies are common. A few (very few) Prairie School, Tudor, and Ranch. Only the Prairie School is attributable to FLW.
1094 Cambria Way, El Dorado Hills, CA 95762 | MLS# 12027628

In Seattle your prototypical expensive house looks like some variant of this
5672 171st Ave SE, Bellevue, WA 98006 | MLS# 321366
I've heard them called French Chalet style, usually billed as a Craftsman, which I don't by. The generic slight skew shape is too pervasive and has just about anything crafted onto it. I've also heard it called French Chateaux, not sure about that either. I just call it generic expensive house. Whatever facade can be glued onto the front. Tudor, Victorian, vaguely European (where the Chalet, Chateaux comes from, perhaps?) PNW contemporary shingle look...
23970 SE 8th Place, Sammamish, WA 98075 | MLS# 373057
This one's vaguely Federal to me, certainly not Craftsman.
5382 242nd Place NE, Redmond, WA 98053 | MLS# 373274
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