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Old 03-17-2013, 08:26 AM
 
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I wonder about that too, it's sad. Maybe it's something with the availability or reliability of older parts or something.
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Old 03-17-2013, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
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That certainly has the potential to become a great kitchen.
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Old 03-17-2013, 11:49 AM
 
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I guess for the same reaso people build different types of homes tare new.One can look at all kind of older things and see historic and other see only a few as historic and woth preserving.
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Old 03-17-2013, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Default Take care not to inhale

Whether you do or don't like the old place....be careful not to inhale particles of lead paint or insulation from old houses when restoring or remediating.

Countless lives have been negatively affecting in the attempt to reinsulate, repair, or restore vintage buildings. Children as well as adults have been known to develop illnesses and allergies from toxic substances lurking within old houses.

The house we now live in replaced the old original 1900's home that once stood on our lot. Apparently the place was overtaken with moldy dryrot. I wish the builder had made the old house habitable but he couldn't be bothered. Sadly so many builders tear down old homes because that's the most lucrative way to make a living.

A family who once lived in the old original home here stopped by and told us they suffered from chronic respiratory complaints all the years that they lived here until they moved out. Mysteriously after they relocated their health improved overnight...
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Old 03-17-2013, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,708 posts, read 79,757,770 times
Reputation: 39453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefani W View Post
Whether you do or don't like the old place....be careful not to inhale particles of lead paint or insulation from old houses when restoring or remediating.

Countless lives have been negatively affecting in the attempt to reinsulate, repair, or restore vintage buildings. Children as well as adults have been known to develop illnesses and allergies from toxic substances lurking within old houses.

The house we now live in replaced the old original 1900's home that once stood on our lot. Apparently the place was overtaken with moldy dryrot. I wish the builder had made the old house habitable but he couldn't be bothered. Sadly so many builders tear down old homes because that's the most lucrative way to make a living.

A family who once lived in the old original home here stopped by and told us they suffered from chronic respiratory complaints all the years that they lived here until they moved out. Mysteriously after they relocated their health improved overnight...
This is a nice warning, and thoughtful and probably well intended, but it is completely untrue as a general concept. Things like you relate are extremely unusual and often are linked to a cause that has nothing to do with the age of the house. It is certainly not a valid generalization, and there is no reason to frighten people with old houses. There is nothing about most old houses that is particularly threatening and there as just as many toxin issues (or more) with new houses.

It is certainly untrue that "countless lives" have been negatively impacted restoring old buildings, unless by "countless" you mean none.

Lead paint like most purported house toxins is overblown as a threat to humans. I fell prey to this phony hype years ago after sanding and heat gunning miles of lead paint off of moldings in our house and neighbors'. When I realized it was all lead based paint (never thought about it prior to that) I rushed to the doctor for testing and had the kids and wife tested to just to be safe. I had undoubtedly breathed in huge quantities of lead paint dust and vapor (although I normally wore a mask, you still end up breathing in some). While the kids were not in the house when i was working, there was still dust and vapor around when they returned. I was worried. What had I done! I read all the nice panic literature and had a nice panic. Our lead levels were virtually zero. The Doctor told me the lead paint scare was overblown and explained how and when it was a problem. This led me to do a lot of research on it.

The primary problem arose from young children sucking on or chewing radiators and window sills painted with lead paint for a long time, a lot of times, over a period of many weeks or years. It could also conceivably cause problems if a child regularly licks walls painted with lead paint (and not painter over with non-lead based paint). Very young children who eat it in substantial quantities can have their brain development impaired. Pregnant women who ingest significant quantities can end up with brain damaged or dead babies. For adults lead has not been shown to be substantially problematic, except it may make adult men sterile. However, you need to ingest substantial quantities of lead paint to cause any problem at all, not just breathe some dust on a few occasions.

Keep in mind that in the past, lead was used in everything. Silverware, china, glassware, water pipes. . . All kinds of things. People ingested quite a bit of lead, but it take a whole lot to generate the problems discovered in the 1960s and 1970s.

I am not saying to ignore lead paint as a threat, but breathing a little bit of dust is not something to panic over. While a warning is fine, there is no reason to get all panicky over lead paint. It is not a big deal. Wear a mask, take a shower wen done, wipe up as much dust as you can before people come pack into the work areas.

Insulation should not be inhaled whether it is new or old, but there is no issue with insulation unique to older homes. Either one is equally likely to have mold or other ick in it. Some people get all panicky because a specific type of insulation from a certain company for a few years had asbestos in it. Also asbestos was used to insulate pipes, to strengthen flooring and adhesives, and in some ceiling tiles. It was also used to make siding for a while. Asbestos in a home is not a big deal. Asbestos dust is known to cause horrid health problems when concentrated amounts are breathed in daily for years and years. It is a problem for factory workers who work constantly in thick clouds of asbestos dust with not protections for years. It is actually a very once product in homes, but no longer used because of problems that occurred in factories, shipyard and for auto mechanics who breath clouds of it regularly. Lawyers who have run out of clients to sue for real asbestos dust exposure have aggravated the hype in the hopes of getting more lucrative work.

If you have an older house with asbestos products, do not grind them up and snort lines of the dust on a daily basis. Otherwise, just slap a coat of paint or clear coat over them. You can remove asbestos pipe or wall insulation if you want to (wear a mask). In some communities, you can just toss it in the trash (it is inert). In others you have to dispose of it at a haz waste disposal site.

All of the purported "toxic substances" lurking in old houses is a much exaggerated threat promoted by urban legend and remediation contractors who want people to be scared so they hire expensive remediation contractors.

Asbestos and lead are discussed above. Mold exists in every home (even your home - right now). Toxic molds are very rare. A few people are severely allergic to molds and will have problems in any house old or new. Most new houses are more mold prone than older houses because new houses are sealed - the moisture from our daily lives has nowhere to go. (Some new homes have ventilation systems, but not many).

In maybe the 1960s for a time, there was a type of foam insulation used in a few houses that gave off formaldehyde as it cured. It was used only for a short time and only in a few homes. I have not ever seen this foam in a house, but I have heard it exists. Of course new homes are not immune to this problem. Many new homes were recently built using Chinese drywall that contained formaldehyde.

There have been problems with various toxins in new and old houses over the years. It happens, but it is not something to get worked up about and not something that is special to old houses. Most of the claims are ridiculous. The most recent one I heard was a claim that granite counter tops emit radon and require remediation (they do but sue tiny trace amounts it cannot impact people - not to mention the ground you walk on emits radon
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Old 03-17-2013, 05:56 PM
 
Location: NW Penna.
1,758 posts, read 3,832,721 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefani W View Post
Whether you do or don't like the old place....be careful not to inhale particles of lead paint or insulation from old houses when restoring or remediating.

Countless lives have been negatively affecting in the attempt to reinsulate, repair, or restore vintage buildings. Children as well as adults have been known to develop illnesses and allergies from toxic substances lurking within old houses. ...
...
A family who once lived in the old original home here stopped by and told us they suffered from chronic respiratory complaints all the years that they lived here until they moved out. Mysteriously after they relocated their health improved overnight...
And most of the danger with either lead or asbestos is occupational exposure to people who work or worked worked in some industry or occupation that gave them chronic exposures to some substance, while wearing no or inadequate personnel protection. I actually only know of one family whose kid tested high for lead levels. And the cause of that was some contractors doing demolition and repairs by grossly negligent and illegal methods that absolutely polluted at least two floors of the apartment building with vast quantities of lead dust.

People can "suffer from respiratory ailments" for any number of reasons, some of which might just be their own poor hygiene or poor nutrition or accumulation of (moldy) house dust and dust mites, and / or cigarette smoking, and / or mold or dampness that could have been remedied by simply running a dehumidifier in the basement in warm or wet weather and providing proper drainage and functional gutters and downspouts to prevent water from leaking into the basement. To say nothing of keeping a good roof on the house so that rainwater cant leak in via that route.

Asbestos and lead paint hazards are vastly over-hyped to the general public. Part of it is just marketing strategy: Sell either services or new homes by creating a perceived health risk related to old homes. Asbestos, lead dust, and mold, and radon, are all substances that can be identified and quantified by testing.

People need to stop worrying about the sky is falling, and be more rational and practical and less wasteful. After all, many people were born back before asbestos, x-rays, lead paint, or leaded gasoline were hazardous, lol. ;-) And they lived to be at least age 75-80 if not 90. Of course, the drafty windows for fresh air and dilution of indoor pollution and the comparative lack of plastics and man-made chemicals in their homes probably helped. As did the amount of time they spent outdoors. People who spent a lot of time outdoors as opposed to indoors have stronger immune systems and fewer respiratory ailments.
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Old 03-17-2013, 06:04 PM
 
Location: NW Penna.
1,758 posts, read 3,832,721 times
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Quote:
Why do people buy beautiful older homes when want to "renovate" them into something else?
Because they want to make it all beige and bland. That's the only reason I can see, because everything is some tint or shade of tan, beige, or brown when they are finished.
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:28 PM
 
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I would prefer this older kitchen ....it's called retro or vintage. Place one of those 1950' refurbished stoves which only wealthy people can afford and you have a blast from the past. It may take several years
but eventually people will be looking for places that went untouched from the granite, stainless steel,etc.
typical formula that is so cookie cutter popular today.
I bet that kitchen also had a walk in pantry. Builders are putting in the old walk in pantry back into new homes
now, they make sense.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
12,946 posts, read 13,325,753 times
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Almost nowhere in this country has any structure remained in its original state. People are constantly striving to add the latest technology for convenience & comfort.

Nothing wrong with that, especially if it is private property.

As for changing the look or style, that is a matter of personal taste & choice.

Those who care about restoring a 17th or 18th century house to its original specs:
Are they remiss if they don't tear out the 20th century bathrooms, wiring, furnace/A/C, kitchen appliances and revert to outhouses, candles, fireplace heating & cooking?
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
5,509 posts, read 9,485,987 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoPro View Post
Almost nowhere in this country has any structure remained in its original state. People are constantly striving to add the latest technology for convenience & comfort.

Nothing wrong with that, especially if it is private property.

As for changing the look or style, that is a matter of personal taste & choice.

Those who care about restoring a 17th or 18th century house to its original specs:
Are they remiss if they don't tear out the 20th century bathrooms, wiring, furnace/A/C, kitchen appliances and revert to outhouses, candles, fireplace heating & cooking?
Yes, because the only 2 choices, apparently, are: a. living in a museum that is a perfect time capsule from when the house was built, or b. completely gutting the entire house every 20 years to make it meet modern sensibilities/standards.
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