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Old 08-25-2015, 11:43 AM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA & Sharon, VT
168 posts, read 283,852 times
Reputation: 395

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We're looking to build a single family home on our property in Vermont, with a target construction period of spring / summer 2017. Based on that I've sketched out the following rough timeline - I'd appreciate any feedback on this!

* Early 2016 - start contacting architects and design/builders

* Spring 2016 - decide on an architect; get a topographic survey (when grass is low, and we know architect's needs)

* Spring / Summer 2016 - contact, then contract with, septic design & well placement folks

* Summer 2016 - contact electric company about connection needs (with goal of having power on site during 2017 build period) (power line is ~100 yards away, not a big deal)

* Late Summer 2016 - settle on an architect, or design/builder

* Fall 2016 - start vetting contractors (unless we are using a design/builder, of course)

* Late fall 2016 - start exploring construction loans (this would be when we have a decent estimate of costs, and the plans are far enough along for the bank to review)

Again, any feedback welcome! In general I over-think things, but I want to make sure we're being realistic, and not missing anything important.
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Old 08-25-2015, 12:27 PM
 
28,455 posts, read 84,989,538 times
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I always recommend that anyone even considering a new home start with LENDERS. It is rare that the finances of any project are not the #1 limiting factor. If the numbers don't work for a custom build maybe it makes more sense to consider something built offsite and then trucked in. Some of the current alternatives to site built homes are extremely attractive.

In areas where you will not have municipal water or sewer it is extremely important to get the proper authorities involved as early as possible -- the lead time for some area may be shockingly far out into the future.

Any money issues that come up early in the project will have a major impact on what actually can be built. If the estimates for well and septic eat up so much of your budget that the project needs to be delayed or cancelled there is really not a whole lot of sense meeting with others...


The best projects often come from homeowners that have both a lengthy list of potential wants and a realistic idea of what is a must. Their ability to find an architect that shares a realistic approach about how to achieve the musts along with a healthy portion of the wants really comes down to communication. Ideally the OP already knows some people that have utilized a talented architect for a similar project. It makes a whole lot of sense to also try to meet with architects themselves in an informal way, some AIA chapters have gatherings for architects and potential clients. Similarly the design/build firms that emphasize the communication aspects of their business over say the "selling" aspects tend to have more satisfied clients. Winnowing down the potential architects or design/build firms to a manageable number that you want to move forward with is very very important. It is completely realistic to bring information that you've discussed with your LENDER to these meetings and use all available judgement to determine how serious the various candidates are about delivering what you need / want within the budget available. It also makes sense to consider the prefab options.

At the point that you are comfortable with either an architect, design/build firm or prefab option is when you should rely on their expertise in driving the project's timeline and requirements. Firms with experience dealing with sites that need wells and septic will get the necessary information to / from necessary parties. If you already have an initial contact for the agency / authority that will be helpful.

Most architects that have done projects like this will have a "short list" of contractors that they are comfortable with. Depending on the range of materials and techniques your project requires it is not unusual for architects to want familiarity with either the General Contractor or some specific subs. It is generally wise to rely on the expertise of of the architect in reviewing the qualification of any firms that your solicit bids from. Similarly the prefab companies typically rely on a network of firms that can properly prep the site and make the necessary connections. There are major advantages in terms of timeline when going that way. Experienced design/build firms generally have some fairly detailed methodology that helps them deliver project in a timely manner. You should review their entire methodology and determine how compatible it is with your goals. Often times the methodology of such firms limits the range of choices you can make, but the trade off is tight budget and deadlines...

Each of the paths also have distinctive checkpoints with your lender. The various "milestones" that need to be accomplished for the lender to OK the release of funds to parties that have done work is a very important role for the lender. Lenders that have good staff assigned to the new construction loans really make the whole process easier on everyone.

The long list of tasks that have to be addressed before a successful project commences should help explain why so few people have success stories for this kind of undertaking. Few people bother to put appropriate planning / preparation into the project and then scramble to do something that nearly wipes them out financially...
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Old 08-25-2015, 12:39 PM
 
28,455 posts, read 84,989,538 times
Reputation: 18725
I always recommend that anyone even considering a new home start with LENDERS. It is rare that the finances of any project are not the #1 limiting factor. If the numbers don't work for a custom build maybe it makes more sense to consider something built offsite and then trucked in. Some of the current alternatives to site built homes are extremely attractive.

In areas where you will not have municipal water or sewer it is extremely important to get the proper authorities involved as early as possible -- the lead time for some area may be shockingly far out into the future.

Any money issues that come up early in the project will have a major impact on what actually can be built. If the estimates for well and septic eat up so much of your budget that the project needs to be delayed or cancelled there is really not a whole lot of sense meeting with others...


The best projects often come from homeowners that have both a lengthy list of potential wants and a realistic idea of what is a must. Their ability to find an architect that shares a realistic approach about how to achieve the musts along with a healthy portion of the wants really comes down to communication. Ideally the OP already knows some people that have utilized a talented architect for a similar project. It makes a whole lot of sense to also try to meet with architects themselves in an informal way, some AIA chapters have gatherings for architects and potential clients. Similarly the design/build firms that emphasize the communication aspects of their business over say the "selling" aspects tend to have more satisfied clients. Winnowing down the potential architects or design/build firms to a manageable number that you want to move forward with is very very important. It is completely realistic to bring information that you've discussed with your LENDER to these meetings and use all available judgement to determine how serious the various candidates are about delivering what you need / want within the budget available. It also makes sense to consider the prefab options.

At the point that you are comfortable with either an architect, design/build firm or prefab option is when you should rely on their expertise in driving the project's timeline and requirements. Firms with experience dealing with sites that need wells and septic will get the necessary information to / from necessary parties. If you already have an initial contact for the agency / authority that will be helpful.

Most architects that have done projects like this will have a "short list" of contractors that they are comfortable with. Depending on the range of materials and techniques your project requires it is not unusual for architects to want familiarity with either the General Contractor or some specific subs. It is generally wise to rely on the expertise of of the architect in reviewing the qualification of any firms that your solicit bids from. Similarly the prefab companies typically rely on a network of firms that can properly prep the site and make the necessary connections. There are major advantages in terms of timeline when going that way. Experienced design/build firms generally have some fairly detailed methodology that helps them deliver project in a timely manner. You should review their entire methodology and determine how compatible it is with your goals. Often times the methodology of such firms limits the range of choices you can make, but the trade off is tight budget and deadlines...

Each of the paths also have distinctive checkpoints with your lender. The various "milestones" that need to be accomplished for the lender to OK the release of funds to parties that have done work is a very important role for the lender. Lenders that have good staff assigned to the new construction loans really make the whole process easier on everyone.

The long list of tasks that have to be addressed before a successful project commences should help explain why so few people have success stories for this kind of undertaking. Few people bother to put appropriate planning / preparation into the project and then scramble to do something that nearly wipes them out financially...

There is an implied "lifestyle" that folks are buying into when they go down this path. Regardless of how much cash on hand they have when they start, by the time the project results in something usable will the demands on time and other financial decisions (like funding retirement, kids education, elder parent care...) really mean that this get away gets used? The vast majority of even very well off people quickly learn that the time / opportunity cost to get to some remote places means it is more of burden than they anticipated. If their own age / health means that they do not have access to the level of health care that they are accustomed to in their primary residence the whole "we'll spent our retirement there" argument quickly becomes harder to realize.

I am not really going to say that these things are "deal killers" but having had a shared family vacation home and dealt with these things, as well as having had friends that faced similar issues, I would emphasize that the details are often sobering.
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Old 08-25-2015, 04:58 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA & Sharon, VT
168 posts, read 283,852 times
Reputation: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
I always recommend that anyone even considering a new home start with LENDERS. It is rare that the finances of any project are not the #1 limiting factor. If the numbers don't work for a custom build maybe it makes more sense to consider something built offsite and then trucked in. Some of the current alternatives to site built homes are extremely attractive.
I agree; when I say "design/builder" above, I actually have in mind a few different prefab or off-site constructors in the northern New England area - Bensonwood, Connor, etc. They all seem to do great work, and I see clear and material benefit from going that route. However, before we commit to a prefab design/builder, I do want to at least meet with some architects to see what they offer (and what they believe that they offer that's better than going with a prefab builder).

Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
In areas where you will not have municipal water or sewer it is extremely important to get the proper authorities involved as early as possible -- the lead time for some area may be shockingly far out into the future.

Any money issues that come up early in the project will have a major impact on what actually can be built. If the estimates for well and septic eat up so much of your budget that the project needs to be delayed or cancelled there is really not a whole lot of sense meeting with others...
Thx. I do have a fairly detailed spreadsheet already, which includes moderately generous estimates (i.e., on the high side) for well, septic and driveway, based on both conversations with neighbors in the area, and some pointed Google searches. So I'm pretty comfortable with the numbers (and in any event definitely would *not* proceed without being in good shape in that regard).

Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
The best projects often come from homeowners that have both a lengthy list of potential wants and a realistic idea of what is a must. Their ability to find an architect that shares a realistic approach about how to achieve the musts along with a healthy portion of the wants really comes down to communication.
I should have noted that we went through a "down to the studs" renovation of a home about a decade ago, plus a 1,000 sq.ft. addition and extensive exterior hardscaping (pool, fire pit, planter boxes, etc.), and so do have some experience with what we're getting into. (And the good news is that the marriage survived!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
Ideally the OP already knows some people that have utilized a talented architect for a similar project. It makes a whole lot of sense to also try to meet with architects themselves in an informal way, some AIA chapters have gatherings for architects and potential clients. Similarly the design/build firms that emphasize the communication aspects of their business over say the "selling" aspects tend to have more satisfied clients. Winnowing down the potential architects or design/build firms to a manageable number that you want to move forward with is very very important.
Right now we have a list of about a dozen potential contenders, with a few clear "front runners" already in our mind - as noted above Bensonwood and Connor, plus some Vermont firms such as Red House, Birdseye, Classic Homes, etc. (all of which have been around for years and hence successfully weathered the 2009/9/10 downturn). So when I refer to contacting architects above, in winter/spring 2016, what I had in my mind was doing some basic outreach to the top 6 or so of what we've identified - then, as you say, using my experience and common sense to gauge their responses and take it from there. My desire is that they be willing to meet with us on site, if not at the very initial meeting then soon thereafter - my view is that if they won't come out to the site for a visit early on, then in my mind they aren't serious contenders. That's driven in part by the fact that we have a somewhat unique site (moderate slope, nearby pond, and incredible 30 mile views in one direction), and also by the fact that I'm going to want good and responsive service - so if they won't even make an effort up front when they're trying to get my work, then they definitely won't be responsive down the road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
The long list of tasks that have to be addressed before a successful project commences should help explain why so few people have success stories for this kind of undertaking. Few people bother to put appropriate planning / preparation into the project and then scramble to do something that nearly wipes them out financially...
Well, LOL, fortunately or unfortunately I'm an over-thinker on everything, so the one thing I doubt I'll lack is planning and preparation! And more seriously, as I say we went through a 6-figure renovation-and-addition a few years ago, so we have a pretty decent idea of the hurdles (and curveballs) we're going to face.
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Old 08-25-2015, 09:10 PM
 
28,455 posts, read 84,989,538 times
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Default You should better prepared than probably 95% of folks contemplating such a project...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierrajeff View Post
I agree; when I say "design/builder" above, I actually have in mind a few different prefab or off-site constructors in the northern New England area - Bensonwood, Connor, etc. They all seem to do great work, and I see clear and material benefit from going that route. However, before we commit to a prefab design/builder, I do want to at least meet with some architects to see what they offer (and what they believe that they offer that's better than going with a prefab builder).



Thx. I do have a fairly detailed spreadsheet already, which includes moderately generous estimates (i.e., on the high side) for well, septic and driveway, based on both conversations with neighbors in the area, and some pointed Google searches. So I'm pretty comfortable with the numbers (and in any event definitely would *not* proceed without being in good shape in that regard).



I should have noted that we went through a "down to the studs" renovation of a home about a decade ago, plus a 1,000 sq.ft. addition and extensive exterior hardscaping (pool, fire pit, planter boxes, etc.), and so do have some experience with what we're getting into. (And the good news is that the marriage survived!)



Right now we have a list of about a dozen potential contenders, with a few clear "front runners" already in our mind - as noted above Bensonwood and Connor, plus some Vermont firms such as Red House, Birdseye, Classic Homes, etc. (all of which have been around for years and hence successfully weathered the 2009/9/10 downturn). So when I refer to contacting architects above, in winter/spring 2016, what I had in my mind was doing some basic outreach to the top 6 or so of what we've identified - then, as you say, using my experience and common sense to gauge their responses and take it from there. My desire is that they be willing to meet with us on site, if not at the very initial meeting then soon thereafter - my view is that if they won't come out to the site for a visit early on, then in my mind they aren't serious contenders. That's driven in part by the fact that we have a somewhat unique site (moderate slope, nearby pond, and incredible 30 mile views in one direction), and also by the fact that I'm going to want good and responsive service - so if they won't even make an effort up front when they're trying to get my work, then they definitely won't be responsive down the road.



Well, LOL, fortunately or unfortunately I'm an over-thinker on everything, so the one thing I doubt I'll lack is planning and preparation! And more seriously, as I say we went through a 6-figure renovation-and-addition a few years ago, so we have a pretty decent idea of the hurdles (and curveballs) we're going to face.
The fact that you've been through (survived !) a major renovation is a BIG plus in your corner. The pitfalls of many of these endeavors is unrealistic sense of the "pace" of any major project and the impact changes have on budget and timeline.

Many years ago my family had a "vacation spot" that was jointly owned. We decided to put a prefab on the site and enjoyed for a few years but it was very under-utilized and we sold it. The proceeds helped each of have lots more no-worry vacations and there generally are no regrets (or at least nobody mentions them...) .

btw, if you like to make detailed lists here a sort of checklist of various stages in the process. I could probably add more, but the idea is that you, and your architect , GC, builders , whatever have an ENORMOUS number of decisions to agree on... http://www.house-building.com/Homepl...kChecklist.pdf

I wish you luck!
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Old 08-26-2015, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Texas
5,717 posts, read 18,789,309 times
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The first thing I would do is find the builder you want to work with and get in bed with him. Use his lenders and his subs. He'll have a favorite designer/architect he likes using and the relationships between him and these guys are paramount. I'd ask about benching the lot in 2016 if required and getting any power to the lot as well as water. Since nobody here has a clue about the lot drainage, ask about the septic system and bringing in the water in 2016. Don't assume that the power a few hundred feet away is a nothing. Two houses I built 2 years ago were side by side. I started the power and light company on it before we set forms. I ran those jobs off of a generator. The finished houses complete with sod and sprinklers was still on generator when the houses sold. We couldn't close until the power company put in the permanent power. That was $2 million sitting there waiting for their ONE contractor to do the work he was paid for completing almost a year previous. I've had water companies take close to a year to set the water meter. The key here is don't wait for power and water. It CAN take a lot longer than you would ever think.
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Old 08-27-2015, 10:17 AM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA & Sharon, VT
168 posts, read 283,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperL View Post
The first thing I would do is find the builder you want to work with and get in bed with him. Use his lenders and his subs. He'll have a favorite designer/architect he likes using and the relationships between him and these guys are paramount.
Thanks, I'm definitely getting the sense that I should reach out to proposed design/builders and proposed banks simultaneously, and early; then from their initial reactions, take it from there. But I'm increasingly seeing the point of lining up the design/builder first, and then seeing if they have septic, etc. subs that they can use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperL View Post
I'd ask about benching the lot in 2016 if required ...
OK, confessing ignorance here - "benching the lot"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperL View Post
Since nobody here has a clue about the lot drainage, ask about the septic system and bringing in the water in 2016.
Without sounding too Pollyanna about it, this is one area that I'm pretty comfortable - our soils passed a perc test when we bought, and the field for the house site is about 5 acres, so I'm pretty comfortable that we'll be able to site septic somewhere... and if nothing else, I'm at peace with the notion of a mound system (our field's on a hillside, so a mound system could be sculpted in and look OK... and given the hillside, drainage also should not be a problem). And for water, we'll have to drill a well - but here too I'm not worried; there are streams literally on the property, and neighbors have successfully had wells dug at depths of 200-300 feet in the last few years.
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Old 08-27-2015, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Texas
5,717 posts, read 18,789,309 times
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Benching is sitework term and it means to cut out the lot where the work is going to take place to a level pad. It will be where the house will go. If the lot has much topo (slope), benching solves a host of drainage issues both at construction and long into the future. Drainage is not something you want to address later. Here's a pic I googled to demonstrate what benching is although this is not the greatest example.




The suggestion for the water will be cured once you have a well drilled and working. But you need to know that it needs to be working before they start construction. So I would not delay in getting it put in. I would strongly suggest putting the septic in before construction starts. The least amount of anything that moves dirt should happen before the foundation starts. You never know, they may run into a huge rock that requires dynamite or a hammer hoe. Neither needs to happen to a freshly formed foundation as that's when cracks start to happen from the pounding.
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Old 08-28-2015, 10:24 AM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA & Sharon, VT
168 posts, read 283,852 times
Reputation: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperL View Post
Benching is sitework term and it means to cut out the lot where the work is going to take place to a level pad. It will be where the house will go.
Thx. We'll have a full basement, and given the hillside, we'll probably set it up to be exposed on the lower slope (e.g., imagine an old barn built on a hillside). And being Vermont... we will have to blast out ledge! No two ways about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperL View Post
The suggestion for the water will be cured once you have a well drilled and working. But you need to know that it needs to be working before they start construction. So I would not delay in getting it put in. I would strongly suggest putting the septic in before construction starts. The least amount of anything that moves dirt should happen before the foundation starts. You never know, they may run into a huge rock that requires dynamite or a hammer hoe. Neither needs to happen to a freshly formed foundation as that's when cracks start to happen from the pounding.
Seems like this is a bit chicken-and-egg, though - they'll definitely have to blast for the basement/foundation, and there will be a lot of heavy equipment rolling around for both that task, and then for building the foundation, and then (less so) for building the house. Doesn't all that risk damaging an in-place septic system, if the septic system's constructed first?

(That's partly rhetorical; I know that without a lot more information, topo survey, etc. neither you nor I nor anyone can come up with a certified answer right now - I just need to have patience and talk to professionals once we actually get the ball rolling. After all, we won't be the first people to face these questions, so if I chose the right professionals, they should be able to take care of all these issues just fine... [fingers crossed!])
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Old 08-28-2015, 11:13 AM
 
28,455 posts, read 84,989,538 times
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Local experience is key! The soils in Vermont are dramatically different than those in Texas, which are dramatically different than those is Wisconsin -- an excavation contractor familiar with one area would not be real helpful making recommendations for the other. Even when it comes to sequence of build (septic before or after houses foundation...) the tradition in New England or the midwest might not be the same as in Texas...

I do agree that when issues come up for water / septic / utilities the consequence on budget and timeline are maddening. I have seen how such things can really wipe so much cash and so much of the season that the whole project really does become a risk of failure and thus my recommendation to have a lender that you can trust on board as early possible.

For projects like this, the lender is not performing the relatively limited function of just giving you money and then you passing that on to contractor as happens for a "normal" renovation. They will be a third party that verifies certain milestones have been accomplished, obtain legal releases of liens, and ensures that nothing "blows the budget". For those reasons I would be reluctant to allow the builder (or the architect, or frankly any firm involved in even constructing a pre-fab or kit build log cabin...) to have any relationship with the lender. You do not want them too beholden to any such entity, and frankly they should not be all that beholden to you. The role of new construction lender, as bluntly as possible, is to ensure that something worthy of the lender's collateral is produced as quickly as possible. That means even if the "home owner" were to have some unfortunate circumstances force them to default, the lender would have a saleable project. That is understandably risky and lenders that do not acknowledge that risk often fund projects that should never have been built...


If the OP is truly doing this "bi-coastally" that increases the risk in some obvious ways. Unless they have "jackpot sized" cash on hand (in which case they probably do not need a lender...) they can't be both in the place where they earn their living AND supervise the completion of critical aspects of the construction. The lender has a vested interest in getting somebody out there to ensure no "corners were cut". The "fee" for this is sometimes baked into the loan as a higher rate / prepayment penalty (so you cannot refinance for like 5 years or so...) OR as literally a higher upfront "loan origination fee" that is paid from proceeds of the loan at initial funding -- the loan might include thousands extra to cover this oversight. Even if you are close enough to come out and visit weekly it probably makes sense to have a real live "mean banker" to remind the contractors that there really will be consequences for not doing what was proposed on the schedule agreed to -- the banker will not release funds until appropriate milestones are achieved. That keeps everybody on their toes...
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