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Old 07-09-2010, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Maple Lake, MN
8,677 posts, read 9,999,432 times
Reputation: 10171

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Carry on...
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Old 07-09-2010, 02:51 PM
 
299 posts, read 311,432 times
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Default " To boldly go where NO thread has gone before ..."

Its hard to keep tightly on topic in the thread because the bill and the whole subject of illegal immigration are so intertwined..

As far as the bill itself is concerned .. Its pretty much all been said..

Those that are for it are steadfast in their support .. understanding that the situation MUST be taken care of .. and putting the bill's intent over perfect wording.. They have faith in the authorities trying to apply it with as few rights violations as possible.. They are also willing to be lenient and understanding when mistakes occur, and not use them to taint the whole effort.. They also have faith in the legal public not being "harmed" by any mistakes, outside of any hurt feelings or perceived injustices .. and that once the problem has been successfully dealt with, things will return to more stringent oversight.

Those that are against the bill are also steadfast in their feelings.. Some also agree with the intent of the bill, but will give no leniency to the authorities in their application.. Others are actually against the intent of the bill .. the removal of the illegal immigrants..Their sympathies are actually with the illegals.. They feel there's room in america for everyone who wants to come here, regardless of their ability to contribute, or their desire to become "one of us" .. and that america is both rich enough to support them, and also doesn't have the right to keep them out.. Still others, not only sympathize with the illegals, but also feel loyalty to them over loyalty to america..

Both sides include people who are on their side for various reasons.. Some of them good reasons, and some not so good.. But the bottom line is that it doesn't appear anyone's mind will be changed...... Those who support the bill will continue to .. and those who oppose it will continue to...... And those that are waiting for a perfectly worded and infallable bill will be disappointed, because it isn't going to appear.

So, even though the arguing will continue .. the debate - at least on the bill itself - is pretty much finished.

----------------------------------------------------------------

YOU KNOW .. the immigration bill THREAD itself is actually a pretty good example of the situation with the actual bill..

The thread is on a specific topic .. and there are strong rules regarding content and behavior (application).. The posters, along with the MOD's, are well aware of this.. Yet posters - including myself - often stray beyond the parameters.. We do this because we know our intent is honest, in that we want to address an important situation .. (immigration bill/immigration) .. and its very hard to do so without coloring outside the lines once in a while.. But we know our intent is genuine, and that the posters are strong enough to weather any small deviations without serious suffering, .. and that in the long run, City-Data and the Arizona forum will survive .. and once the debating is completed .. the posters will make any necessary adjustments (with the guidance of the MOD's) to get things back on track..

Its a mirror image of the immigration bill situation.. And even of the illegal immigration situation in general.. ........... If Spock were here, I know exactly what he'd say ...... FASCINATING.

tiberius
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Old 07-09-2010, 03:00 PM
 
299 posts, read 311,432 times
Reputation: 410
Default Its in the hands of lawyers and judges now ... God help us all .. haha

PRINIC3Ss... No, I'm all american .. though I do feel like I'm in a foreign country sometimes .. and that I don't belong anymore.. As to your question .. yes, the federal government has filed suit against Arizona over Arizona's anti illegal immigration bill.. It just happened a few days ago.. How it will all end is anyone's guess.. I expect the deck is pretty much stacked against Arizona.. On the other hand, once anything gets into the hands of lawyers and judges .. you never know what might happen..

tiberius
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Old 07-09-2010, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Verde Valley AZ
5,104 posts, read 3,923,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grannysroost View Post
Carry on...

The other one got a tad long didn't it? I expect this debate to continue for quite some time into the future and we are getting closer to the day the law actually begins to be implemented. It will be most interesting to see how it all washes out! I have to leave for work shortly but will catch up with y'all tonight!
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Old 07-10-2010, 12:43 PM
 
2,943 posts, read 3,734,588 times
Reputation: 1123
"Interesting" what the feds are doing to "stop" illegal immigration:

Audits, not raids mark U.S. immigration crackdown: report - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_usa_immigration_audits - broken link)

Yes, the companies that employ illegal immigrants need to be punished. But so do the illegal immigrants! To make it a policy of letting them walk away is one of the reasons why AZ felt in needed to pass 1070.
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Old 07-10-2010, 01:04 PM
 
260 posts, read 281,019 times
Reputation: 215
I think, instead of deporting the illegal aliens, Arizona should keep them. Put them on giant prison farms, and they could grow all kinds of organic vegetables, chickens , eggs, and manufacturing. And Arizona could sell all the cheap goods around the World, and build up a booming economy for Arizona. I think this could be done with the help of Obama, in a way that would be good good for the illegal aliens, and Mexico, and Arizona and the USA.
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Old 07-10-2010, 01:48 PM
 
Location: SW MO Aux Arcs
19,234 posts, read 16,585,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiznluv View Post
LOL pretty good idea!
Except for one thing. I couldn't care less about what's good for illegals and after their president's blathering, I couldn't care less about Mexico either!
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Old 07-10-2010, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Taxachusetts
13,631 posts, read 8,210,542 times
Reputation: 11261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Except for one thing. I couldn't care less about what's good for illegals and after their president's blathering, I couldn't care less about Mexico either!

I don't either, Cur, but that would be a good way to lower the cost of food and "penalize" the illegals for crossing the border. Now if there were only enough guards to work this desert camp. Oh, more employment!

On a more serious note, I saw on our local news the other night, some unemployed guys volunteering to be sent down to the border to help the BP. "Volunteering" of course by way of the Employment Office. If that source was "tapped", solve two problems with one paycheck!
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Old 07-10-2010, 04:48 PM
 
299 posts, read 311,432 times
Reputation: 410
Default " Where the heck did that FENCE come from ???" ......

There's one sure way to not need an immigration bill .. BUILD THE DARN FENCE !!!

The illegals love construction jobs.. Put the word out.. You need 100,000 healthy illegal men .. none with families.. no wife or children to bring over once they are legal.. must be able to communicate in english.. They are volunteering their work in exchange for citizenship.. Spread them out in groups along the border.. along with paid skilled workers..( the illegals providing the labor ).. They will live in camps .. all the workers will.. This will be a "git 'er done" kinda venture..The army of fence builders would put up enormous sections of the fence at a time.. When its up, the groups move down and put up more fence.. The whole 2000 miles of fence would be up fast.. The savings in labor cost would be staggering.. The flow across the border would be down to a dribble.. The 100,000 are made citizens.. They speak english, we give them 1000 dollars apiece .. and send them on their way.. Alot of companies would want to hire one of the "fence builders".. Many would have jobs soon as the fence was done..

We need to get the hell out of that worthless NATO.. and let THOSE troops guard the border once the fence is up.. Those troops are already being paid .. and would be for years to come .. so they won't cost anything we aren't already paying.. Same goes for their equipment.. helicopters, etc.

Then go after the people employing the in country illegals.. Go after them with a BIG BAT .. AND JAIL TIME..

I was just reading an article by Reuters news service.. Remember when they were "illegal aliens" .. now they're "illegal immigrants" ...... Well, Reuters just refered to them as ... " immigrants lacking legal status "..

tiberius
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Old 07-10-2010, 05:23 PM
 
Location: SoCal desert
7,230 posts, read 7,123,284 times
Reputation: 12931
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiberius View Post

I was just reading an article by Reuters news service.. Remember when they were "illegal aliens" .. now they're "illegal immigrants" ...... Well, Reuters just refered to them as ... " immigrants lacking legal status "..

tiberius
Did you correct them in the comments section (if there was one)?

I emailed a local TV station (kinda-sorta lost my temper) because one of their morning news-readers (they're not journalists!) called the AZ bill, "the anti-immigrant bill".

I wasn't the only one - because the next day they called it the "anti-illegal bill" - they said they had received several emails and phone calls
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