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Old 10-20-2010, 10:17 AM
 
1,262 posts, read 1,293,588 times
Reputation: 2179

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
I don't care if an adult chooses to use, I do care if kids do same as with booze. I would have no problem with tobacco companies selling it as long as the penalties for under age use are enforced.
My problem is pot advocates wrapping what they "really" want (which is total legalization) in the cloak of "medical use" which we all know has been a sham program and a huge joke from the git-go.

If you want medical pot then regulate it just like other narcotics with the same penalty for misuse, dispense it from a "real" pharmacy instead of a glorified head shop etc.
If your real intent is legal pot for all then regulate it like booze and restrict where you can smoke it as tight or tighter than they now do with tobacco since second hand pot smoke can get others high...
Medical marijuana is only a sham to those who are not terminally ill, who do not want to vomit at the smell of food, or who don't suffer from chronic pain. Medical marijuana does help sick people and there is plenty of evidence to support that.

The really sick would love to go to their Dr and get a real prescription (not a recommendation) that they can take to a real pharmacy (not a darkened storefront), just like any other normal person. Unfortunately the DEA and the federal laws will not let Drs write perscriptions for marijuana, and pharmacies can not sell it. All attempts to change this have failed at the federal level. The sick would like it to be classified by the feds as a drug with medical value, but the DEA has consistently blocked attempts to get that done too, including ignoring an administative judge's order. The niversity of Mass applied for permission from the DEA to do medical research on marijuana and waited 10 YEARS for the DEA to get around to processing the application, only to deny it. It is not some conspiracy by medical marijuana supporters that have put the current system of distribution in place, it's the DEA and the federal government that has blocked treating medical marijuana like any other medicine. Fourteen states, so far, have found ways around those restrictions, and more are considering legislation, but all this legislation has to be written in such a way as to skirt around the federal laws.

Those who would have marijuana legal for all uses would love to be able to tax and regulate it like alcohol (making it more difficult for minors to purchase it), but again the DEA and the federal government stand in the way.

The pro-marijuana groups are not the hypocrits, it's the federal government that ignores federal studies, prohibits independant research, and refuses to consider sensible public policy.

Medical marijuana may be a stepping stone to full legalization in some states (not in NJ) but that is because medical marijuana laws may eventually force the feds to reclassify marijuana and then relax restrictions on it, not because proponents wouldn't rather do it another more direct way.

 
Old 10-20-2010, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
6,401 posts, read 8,918,516 times
Reputation: 8491
I would recommed those that fall into the pot-should-be-illegal-because-I-said-so camp to do some research into why pot and hemp are banned.

Research the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937

Research Harry Anslinger and his ties to cotton growers, paper producers and DuPont

Research the propaganda in the newspapers of William Randolph Hearst

Pot was not banned because it was "bad". That is a hard fact. The proof is in the pudding.
 
Old 10-20-2010, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Historic Central Phoenix
652 posts, read 2,701,875 times
Reputation: 385
I voted yes in my early ballot.

I can't think of any legitimate reason anyone would be against it aside from wanting to impose your moral/religious values on other people.

Anyway, shouldn't doctors decide what treatment is appropriate rather than bible thumpers?

Last edited by nickw252; 10-20-2010 at 07:28 PM..
 
Old 10-20-2010, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Phoenix Arizona
2,032 posts, read 4,864,339 times
Reputation: 2749
I have concerns about impromptu hackey sack games impeding pedestrian traffic and an overload of Dave Matthews Band on every juke box.
 
Old 10-20-2010, 08:13 PM
 
731 posts, read 1,360,432 times
Reputation: 344
Don't call it medical. If your going to legalize marijuana, just legalize it outright.

My doctor told me to sniff Shoe Goo when I had a stomach ache.
 
Old 10-20-2010, 08:27 PM
 
10,719 posts, read 20,211,921 times
Reputation: 10019
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluenoter View Post
Don't call it medical. If your going to legalize marijuana, just legalize it outright.

My doctor told me to sniff Shoe Goo when I had a stomach ache.
I don't approve of legalizing marijuana in general. I do approve of its medical use. Many people are applying the slippery slope argument suggesting that approval of medical marijuana is the same as legalizing marijuana in general. That is not the case. The proposition has strict limitations which many are unaware of.

(1) Only 1 dispensary per 10 pharmacies are allowed which would limit the number of dispensaries to 124 in the entire state.

(2) the law would require a patient to get a physician's approval to be able to acquire it.

(3) Only patients with a limited number of serious and debilitating conditions, including cancer, HIV/AIDS, Alzheimer's Disease, glaucoma, Crohn's disease, and multiple sclerosis (MS), will be able to acquire medical marijuana in Arizona. This is different than states like California where it's possible to get a doctor's recommendation to use marijuana for almost any condition

A lot of people are unaware of rule number 3 in particular and think a person with any medical condition can get it. Not true!
 
Old 10-21-2010, 02:03 AM
 
95 posts, read 305,756 times
Reputation: 118
Now this is just my personal view:

I don't want a government that tells it's people what they can take into their bodies.

I agree with arresting people for stealing or things of that nature of course.

But it's my body, if I want to get my nose pierced and look like an idiot, get a swastika tattooed on my forehead and look like an idiot, well I think that would be sad but it's my body and what I do to it should never be left up to any kind of a public vote, and all drugs fall into that category. I think it's wrong for me to force my view on other people.

It's funny how strongly people seem to want to hold on to a system that so obviously isn't working and has never shown any signs that it could ever possibly work. That makes me think that all the stuff we are talking about is actually irrelevant and what it's really 100% about is that the people who are making money off of it want things to stay just the way they are.
 
Old 10-21-2010, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Not where you ever lived
11,535 posts, read 30,106,869 times
Reputation: 6422
My daugher has had cancer for over five years. She lives in California where she can get the opiates and the marijuana. I thank God every day that it is available. I am familiar with the system. I am very happy she can buy medical grade weed that is pure from a pharmacy.
 
Old 10-21-2010, 08:32 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,974 posts, read 26,866,205 times
Reputation: 15643
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaconowner View Post
Medical marijuana is only a sham to those who are not terminally ill, who do not want to vomit at the smell of food, or who don't suffer from chronic pain. Medical marijuana does help sick people and there is plenty of evidence to support that.

The really sick would love to go to their Dr and get a real prescription (not a recommendation) that they can take to a real pharmacy (not a darkened storefront), just like any other normal person. Unfortunately the DEA and the federal laws will not let Drs write perscriptions for marijuana, and pharmacies can not sell it. All attempts to change this have failed at the federal level. The sick would like it to be classified by the feds as a drug with medical value, but the DEA has consistently blocked attempts to get that done too, including ignoring an administative judge's order. The niversity of Mass applied for permission from the DEA to do medical research on marijuana and waited 10 YEARS for the DEA to get around to processing the application, only to deny it. It is not some conspiracy by medical marijuana supporters that have put the current system of distribution in place, it's the DEA and the federal government that has blocked treating medical marijuana like any other medicine. Fourteen states, so far, have found ways around those restrictions, and more are considering legislation, but all this legislation has to be written in such a way as to skirt around the federal laws.

Those who would have marijuana legal for all uses would love to be able to tax and regulate it like alcohol (making it more difficult for minors to purchase it), but again the DEA and the federal government stand in the way.

The pro-marijuana groups are not the hypocrits, it's the federal government that ignores federal studies, prohibits independant research, and refuses to consider sensible public policy.

Medical marijuana may be a stepping stone to full legalization in some states (not in NJ) but that is because medical marijuana laws may eventually force the feds to reclassify marijuana and then relax restrictions on it, not because proponents wouldn't rather do it another more direct way.
The only problem I have with this statement is the assumption that people who think the medical programs are a sham have no dog in the hunt. This is not always the case, I'm well aware of what chronic pain is and the meds available I've just seen several of these programs started in different states and seen the results so far. In CA there are billboards everywhere pointing to some "doc in the box" to go to for your pot card pretty much no one turned away. In MT who recently passed this I've seen people who have NO business getting a card pretty much constantly walking around stoned and bragging how $20 got 'em legal not to mention "caregivers" being targeted by thieves who don't want to pay. So yes, in my eyes it's a sham.
People have used opiates for years via prescription through a pharmacy so what's wrong with doing the same with pot if it's truely for medicinal uses? The only argument against a pharmacy solution that I can think of is that not every tom,dick or jane could just pop over and score a bag on Friday night...
The bottom line is I never said pot for medical use was a sham, it's not. Just the programs in place that provide it are.
 
Old 10-21-2010, 02:30 PM
 
1,262 posts, read 1,293,588 times
Reputation: 2179
Default Convince the DEA, not me

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
The only problem I have with this statement is the assumption that people who think the medical programs are a sham have no dog in the hunt. This is not always the case, I'm well aware of what chronic pain is and the meds available I've just seen several of these programs started in different states and seen the results so far. In CA there are billboards everywhere pointing to some "doc in the box" to go to for your pot card pretty much no one turned away. In MT who recently passed this I've seen people who have NO business getting a card pretty much constantly walking around stoned and bragging how $20 got 'em legal not to mention "caregivers" being targeted by thieves who don't want to pay. So yes, in my eyes it's a sham.
People have used opiates for years via prescription through a pharmacy so what's wrong with doing the same with pot if it's truely for medicinal uses? The only argument against a pharmacy solution that I can think of is that not every tom,dick or jane could just pop over and score a bag on Friday night...
The bottom line is I never said pot for medical use was a sham, it's not. Just the programs in place that provide it are.
What's wrong with getting a prescription and going to a pharmacy? Nothing, except that the DEA will prosecute ANY DR that writes a prescription for marijuana.

There is only one argument against a pharmacy dispensing marijuana, and it's not the one you cite. The real argument against it is that the DEA won't allow it.

That's why 14 states have had to go with a Dr's recommendation (not a prescription) and why they have had to go with another distribution system, not pharmacies, not hospitals.

When pharmacies (and hospitals) don't have to fear loss of federal funds (medicare and medicaid reimbusements) then your idea could work, but until the feds get on board, it isn't going to happen that way.

Meanwhile 14 states are unwilling to have the sick and dying sit and wait, maybe you are, but they are not.

Abuses should be reined in and California is trying to adopt new laws and local regulations to do that, and so is CO, but that is no reason to deny pain relief to those in pain, or to deny a cancer patient the ability to keep food down.

The bottom line is, I don't see any compassion in your statements. What I see is someone saying, " medical use" which we all know has been a sham program and a huge joke from the git-go."

So, because someone can abuse the systems in some states, you are suggesting that medical marijuana programs should not exist.

Unfortunately all of the opiates are abused to some extent too. In fact the DEA itself says the biggest current drug threat in the US is perscription drug abuse.

What society has done is balance the benefits and the negatives, with the understanding that some level of abuse will occur, but the benefits are greater. Otherwise, we'd be banning the legal opiates too. That's what you need to consider.

Let's leave the "total legalization" idea to other threads, this one is about why anyone would position themselves in opposition to medical marijuana.
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