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Ken, please stop. You are going after my character. You have no idea what I know or don't know. YOU are saying that I don't know, but what do you know about me? How can you possibly know what I do or do not know? Obviously, you haven't the first clue about it.
Wrong, I DO know that you've not taken a Political Science class. If you did you would HAVE KNOWN about the existance of different political models. You can no more take a class on Political Science & not have heard about the existance of different political models than someone have taken a class in 20th Century History and never had heard about WWII.
Has NCN (or anyone, for that matter) talked about killing illegal immigrants? Terminating the hispanic race? Creating a "perfect race"? Taking over the world with a socialist government? Absolutely not. You are comparing apples to oranges, at best. As soon as people start talking about murdering illegal immigrants, then maybe you've got a point, but nobody is talking about that. All people have been talking about is for the laws to apply equally. Enforce the laws! That's it. How in any way, shape or form does that equate to NAZIism? It doesn't.
The NAZI's didn't talk about doing THOSE things to the Jews EITHER - in their EARLY stages (all that came later). What they DID do was the 4 very same thing NCN has done (which I've ALREADY listed several times. Regarding discussing murdering illegals - well, that's not done on THIS board, but do a google search on "exterminate illegals" and you WILL find wackos out there discussing that so such radical folks DO exist. I have to say though that the ONE thing that NCN clearly did that was most desturbing was the same old NAZI-tactic Bullsh*t of taking the approach that "If you don't agree with me, then you must be one of THEM".
Ken
Last edited by LordBalfor; 11-13-2010 at 06:18 PM..
I think he's talking about the tactics employed by the Nazis BEFORE they started their genocide, and to justify it. That *would* be a fair comparison. Not that I necessarily agree with Ken's entire thesis. But I will admit it's a slippery slope, and one that an open minded person should be aware of.
White supremacists in this country hate illegals of course, probably more so because they're not white. When one starts having things in common with racists, it does make you want to take stock. It does for me, anyhow.
BINGO!
THAT is my WHOLE point - that it is a slippery slope. I'm not saying that NCN wants to take the whole thing to the extreme, but there ARE people out there who do - and I find that VERY DISTURBING. I just don't like those kind of tactics (ie, exaggerating & lying about the crime rate (& blaming it on illegals (as if Americans NEVER commit any crimes ) then (most of all) condemning ANYONE who challenges you as what is in effect an "enemy of the country (ie "one of them").
It's NASTY NASTY politics generally practiced by people with no ethics or conscience.
Yes, illegal immigration NEEDS to be addressed - but NOT in that kind of "witchhunt" manner - not in THIS country.
Exactly. The problem is, when most people think of German NAZIs, they are not thinking pre-genocide, which, of course, taints anything one wants to say about them (and rightly so).
Yes, it makes you re-look at your positions and ask yourself tough questions while looking in the mirror. Three conclusion I came to are 1) that the white-supremacist NAZIs within Arizona constitute such a small minority (14 of them, compared to over 6.5 million non white-supremacist NAZIs), so I don't think it's fair to look at one issue in common and project other ideas; 2) what the white supremacist NAZIs believe is different than white I do--they believe that ALL immigration should be stopped, while I believe only illegal immigration should be stopped; and 3) what I believe falls in line with what the law says, and just because that law is selectively enforced and routinely broken does not mean that it makes the law wrong or unjustified.
But I completely understand what you said.
THIS is a reasonable post. You are right, that "when most people think of German NAZIs, they are not thinking pre-genocide". However, I know enough about the NAZIs to know HOW they started & how they gained a foothold. They started during tough economic times & gained a foothold as things grew even worse. They used the lack of jobs to single out an unpopular minority (in this case that minority is clearly here illegally) but the tactics remain the same - and it's the USE of those TACTICS that really bothers me.
There is ALREADY starting to be increased violence against Hispanics, It's hardly epidemic yet, but it IS increasing. According to hate crime statistics published annually by the FBI, anti-Latino hate crimes rose by almost 35% between 2003 and 2006, the latest year for which statistics are available.
This is an article from 2007 (and things have likely gotten worse since then):
The upshot is that SOME of these folks are ALREADY starting to move from mere rhetoric to ACTION.
This is NOT a road I want my country to go down, so when I see folks doing those basic things the NAZIs did early on it raises my hackles. And if you love your country and the freedom it stands for it should raise yours too.
Certainly the last part I bolded is exactly what Ken was talking about. As far as the other actions, beating and robbing, that presumably comes later on as a result of the blaming. It all starts somewhere, does it not?
Indeed it does - and as I posted, FBI statistic indicate it is ALREADY increases. It's not a huge problem YET - but should we really WAIT for it become a huge problem before we speak out against it?
I don't think so - hence my gripe with the posts of NCN.
Don't you think the "beating and robbing" and murdering and genocide are a bit (or a lot) far fetched as the presumed end?
Not if certain people have their way.
What? Don't you think there are people out there who would LOVE a free hand to DO that?
I certainly would never underestimate the ability of people to do evil - and I mean ALL people - including Americans. Overall, America has a been a great country and we've done a LOT of good - but NOT always so I KNOW those things CAN happen here or anywhere. We rounded up innocent (and LOYAL) Japanese-Americans in WWII, starved the American Indians (after stealing their land) and kept slaves DECADE after the rest of the "civilized world" had banned it, so bad things CAN happen here if we LET them.
" All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke
I for one do NOT intend to remain silent when I see my country headed down a dangerous path.
Yes - Illegal immigration is a problem that MUST be addressed.
No - I don't believe we have to resort to lying about the crime rate & demonizing people in order to fix the problem.
While it may seem to some folks like the political landscape is something set in stone, the fact is (as I have already mentioned numerous time) it's really not and the political spectrum model is pretty fluid & open to redefinition all the time (not that even at any given time is there a single agreed upon definition). To illistrate that point one need only look at the evolution of the Republican party from it's founding in the mid-1800's to it's current state.
When first founded the Republican Party was NOT a Conservative Party (that was the Democrats). Rather in it's infancy the Republican Party was pretty darned radical (especially for it's day) and it's platform was really nothing like the Republican Parties platform today (which is more aligned with the Democrat parties position of that time). It was the Democrats who (at the time) favored limited power for the Federal Government (with more power residing with State & Local Governments) - and in fact, this central tenant was exactly WHY the Democrats (who were more concentrated in the South at the time) made the decision to leave the Union upon Lincolns election.
The Democrats of the time considered the Republicans to be pretty darned radical & accused them of some pretty wild things - things that in todays world are the sorts of things Republicans would accuse Democrats of. Below is a link to the US Library of Congress website showing a Curier & Ives cartoon published in 1860.
Title: The Republican Party going to the right House
Year: 1860
Creator: Currier & Ives
Description: Abraham Lincoln's supporters are portrayed as radicals and eccentrics of various stripes. The satire is loosely based on an anti-Fremont cartoon from the previous presidential race, "The Great Republican Reform Party" (no. 1856-22), also issued by Nathaniel Currier. Here Lincoln, sitting astride a wooden rail borne by Horace Greeley, leads his followers toward a lunatic asylum. Greeley instructs him, "Hold on to me Abe, and we'll go in here by the unanimous consent of the people." Lincoln exhorts his followers, "Now my friends I'm almost in, and the millennium is going to begin, so ask what you will and it shall be granted." At the head of the group is a bearded man, arm-in-arm with a woman and a Mormon. He claims to "represent the free love element, and expect to have free license to carry out its principles." The woman looks at Lincoln, saying "Oh! what a beautiful man he is, I feel a passionate attraction' every time I see his lovely face." The Mormon adds, "I want religion abolished and the book of Mormon made the standard of morality." They are followed by a dandified free black, who announces, "De white man hab no rights dat cullud pussons am bound to spect' I want dat understood." Behind him an aging suffragette says, "I want womans rights enforced, and man reduced in subjection to her authority." Next a ragged socialist or Fourierist, holding a liquor bottle, asserts, "I want everybody to have a share of everybody elses property." At the end of the group are three hooligans, one demanding "a hotel established by government, where people that aint inclined to work, can board free of expense, and be found in rum and tobacco." The second, a thief, wants "the right to examine every other citizen's pockets without interruption by Policemen." The last, an Irish street tough, says, "I want all the stations houses burned up, and the M.P.s killed, so that the bohoys can run with the machine and have a muss when they please."
As you can clearly see, the Republicans at the time were accused of things like:
1) Trying to push "Free Love"
2) Unbridled Feminism & the figurative (not literal) emasculation of Men
3) Socialism (ie note the quote "I want everybody to have a share of everybody elses property")
4) Implimentation of a "Nanny State" (ie note the quote: "I want a hotel established by government, where people that aint inclined to work, can board free of expense, and be found in rum and tobacco")
So, honestly, does that sound like ANYTHING the GOP could be accused of today?
Nope.
Instead, those are the types of things the DEMOCRATS are sometimes accused of. At the TIME, the newly form Republican party not really a CONSERVATIVE PARTY at all, but rather with a platform more closely related to what we would call today "Liberalism" - while the Democrats of the time were more closely aligned with what we consider today to be a "Conservative" agenda.
I'm not trying to belittle EITHER party here - but rather to point out the Political Spectrum is FLUID and & even a lot of concepts that one side or the considers a CORE principle is (over the longer run) not really that "core" at all.
Politcs is not something set in stone, like all other human social creations it is fluid & dynamic and changing ALL THE TIME.
Boompa, that photo you posted which purports to be a photo of Hitler and Bush together is one of the worst Photoshop forgeries I've ever seen. The light sources and pixel resolution on the two images don't even match.
this is a late post but, I thought the very same thing when I looked at it. It is a bad job.......
....snipped...THAT'S why I get SO IRRITATED when I see folks such as NCN spreading such factually incorrect GARBAGE.
Ken
Your arrogant tirades irritate me just as badly and I don't think NCN misrepresented anything. There is a huge problem with illegal aliens in NC, my daughter lives there and, I have personal knowledge of being warned about walking on the Riverwalk at night and that was by a local business person.......
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