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Old 01-14-2011, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
28,005 posts, read 37,987,524 times
Reputation: 17509

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
So we should pass laws restricting guns. These laws will then be followed by the responsible, civilized members of society.....oh wait.

Well at least we made crack and meth illegal and so it is no longer found in the US.
You are right if we don't diligently pursue it. We are not serious about drug laws. We go after the suppliers not the users. Execution of drug users who rail rehabilitation would take care of that. Attack demand if you want it to work.

The guns laws we do pass are just window-dressing to placate the liberals. What is needed is absolute measures not gestures. Ban the manufacture, sale and possession of firearms except for those used in hunting and target and those have to be kept in an armory or range. Violators severely punished including death penalty for those who commit any crime with a gun - even once.
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Old 01-14-2011, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
314 posts, read 789,030 times
Reputation: 211
Tell us which OTHER of the Bill of Rights you'd like to see changed...
Unbelieveable...
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Old 01-14-2011, 09:48 AM
Status: "Resist" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: San Jose, CA
8,798 posts, read 16,749,353 times
Reputation: 9940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
death penalty for those who commit any crime with a gun - even once.
This I actually agree with. However, I think your arguments about banning guns are just stirring the pot. I've read your posts long enough to know you don't actually believe that.
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Old 01-14-2011, 09:49 AM
 
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río Porciúncula
14,006 posts, read 14,170,537 times
Reputation: 9930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
The guns laws we do pass are just window-dressing to placate the liberals. What is needed is absolute measures not gestures.
What is needed is to actually enforce the existing laws rather than just passing the laws and forgetting enforcement.
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Old 01-14-2011, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
28,005 posts, read 37,987,524 times
Reputation: 17509
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog View Post
This I actually agree with. However, I think your arguments about banning guns are just stirring the pot. I've read your posts long enough to know you don't actually believe that.
I strongly disagree with people who think we can not reduce gun crime. I am convinced we could reduce gun violence significantly. I further believe that we would be a safer and arguably better society were there no guns among us. Of course, the recreational benefits of guns, which I myself enjoy, would be lost as well. I am conflicted on that point, but it doesn't alter my conviction that we could, if we so chose, effectively deal with gun violence.

What I don't believe in is half-measures done for political cover. There is no way to reduce gun violence short of an all-encompassing ban on guns. Things like limiting magazine size and banning assault weapons will do nothing, IMO. I find these proposals absurd and the logic of their promoters seriously deficient. There is no way to take guns away from just the criminals and mentally disturbed people. It's all or nothing. I don't think the US is anywhere near willing to take the draconian measures that would matter.
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Old 01-14-2011, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
28,005 posts, read 37,987,524 times
Reputation: 17509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovehound View Post
What is needed is to actually enforce the existing laws rather than just passing the laws and forgetting enforcement.
Presuming that we are somehow NOT enforcing the laws, I doubt that would matter. The Tucson man was in compliance with all gun laws until he pulled the trigger, for example.
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Old 01-14-2011, 10:35 AM
Status: "Resist" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: San Jose, CA
8,798 posts, read 16,749,353 times
Reputation: 9940
It's too late, Ponderosa. Americans have guns, and it's impossible to take them away from them. Any attempt to do so would reduce lawful ownership of guns and increase criminal ownership. Better to focus on more realistic tactics to reduce gun crime. Personally, I like your zero tolerance approach for crimes committed with a gun. Although even that would not deter suicidal maniacs like the Tucson shooter.
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Old 01-14-2011, 01:38 PM
 
Location: AZ
1,983 posts, read 3,072,819 times
Reputation: 3238
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog View Post
It's too late, Ponderosa. Americans have guns, and it's impossible to take them away from them. Any attempt to do so would reduce lawful ownership of guns and increase criminal ownership. Better to focus on more realistic tactics to reduce gun crime. Personally, I like your zero tolerance approach for crimes committed with a gun. Although even that would not deter suicidal maniacs like the Tucson shooter.

I've been saying it for years now we need to impose strict penalties for repeat offenders for all crimes.They know the jails are overcrowded and they end up on probation or doing very little time. Mass. has a 1 year mandatory jail term if you're caught in possession of a firearm without a license.It's rarely enforced and these gang bangers are back out on the streets within days.We just had a case here a few months back where the guy was arrested on his 11th DUI charge! How many people does he need to kill before he's considered a menace to society?


Here's a classic example right out of todays headlines:


Holyoke drug raid yields AK-47 assault rifle, crack cocaine


Quote:
The raid, conducted by city, state and federal investigators, also yielded the arrest of a 27-year-old city man and the confiscation of cocaine, a 40. cal. semiautomatic pistol, nearly 160 rounds of ammunition and assorted rifle parts

Here's the best part:

Quote:
the suspect has been arraigned over 40 times in district courts in Springfield and Holyoke and Hampden Superior Court.

This guy is a classic example why we need a death penalty!

Last edited by Gixxer1K; 01-14-2011 at 01:58 PM..
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Old 01-14-2011, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
28,005 posts, read 37,987,524 times
Reputation: 17509
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog View Post
It's too late, Ponderosa. Americans have guns, and it's impossible to take them away from them. Any attempt to do so would reduce lawful ownership of guns and increase criminal ownership. Better to focus on more realistic tactics to reduce gun crime. Personally, I like your zero tolerance approach for crimes committed with a gun. Although even that would not deter suicidal maniacs like the Tucson shooter.
I don't know. Who, 50 years ago, would have thought smoking in bars would one day be illegal almost everywhere? Change will be evolutionary though, and it will be long time before guns are not part of the American landscape. If it happens at all it will be incrementally - a law here, a law there, restriction here, restriction there until there is not much left of the so-called "right" to bear arms. A changing majority opinion would prevail as it always ultimately will. As for the Constitution, the same courts that returned Dred Scott to slavery and upheld anti-miscegenation later reversed themselves. Courts, too, reflect the will of the people in a democracy. And, of course, there is the amendment process. All things are possible.
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Old 01-14-2011, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Lincoln County Road or Armageddon
4,207 posts, read 5,487,958 times
Reputation: 5717
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog View Post
From YOUR reference:

Europe 5.4
North America 6.5


Not even close? Really?
We're talking countries, not continents. Example;

United Kingdom-1.28 per 100,000
United States-5.0 per 100,00

Like I said, not even close.
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