How do you like Flagstaff? (best city, motels, construction jobs)

[CCCVDUR]

[quote=fcorrales80;9707830]Um Tom, STOP, you are making yourself look more uninformed and ignorant. WHO do you think organize and throw the Pride in the Pine event in Flagstaff? Some gay phantom organization??? LOL LOL, wow. What an uninformed poster. And Flag politics are dominated by democratic, protestant officials. NOT mormon, conservative officials.

Do a google search for GLBT chamber of commerce, gay chamber of commerce, GLBT business directory, etc. etc. and nothing can be found. The advice that many have posted on these forums suggests that gays best avoid Arizona, since there are no protections against employment or housing discrimination. Try NV, NM, Denver, or California.

The religious affiliation of the elected officials is really nobody's business. What we are talking about are policies favoring LDS businesses. No different than Jewish businesses in some areas of the US, or gay businesses in others. And, the Masons control many towns. It's just human nature, that's all I'm saying.

One's religious affiliation (and, sexual orientation for that matter!) should be a private matter in this country! The City of Flagstaff has favored some LDS owned businesses over the years, such as Home Depot, Marriott Internationale (4 Marriott Hotels on prime real estate), New Frontiers Natural Market (their flagship store), Little America hotels, etc. etc. Same thing in the Antelope Valley of California, where there are lots of Marriott hotels. And, Flag has a dark skies ordinance, sign codes, sign lights off after 11pm at night, burgundy/green LDS colors, etc. etc.

If you are LDS, young, and want to meet someone, Flag is a terrific place to live with the 5th highest concentration of LDS in the US and about 10 wards. Flagstaff 12% LDS: http://www.scrippsnews.com/node/31936
Atlas of LDS wards and stakes: http://cumorah.com/atlas/north_ameri...ed_states.html
I don't know if the LDS Church "ranks" towns or not, but if they do, I would imagine that Flagstaff is ranked very high for "young singles."

If you are LDS, NAU is a great place for college, with about 4 LDS wards on campus. There are excellent programs for LDS students into sports and outdoor activities especially mountain biking. Some apartments are nearly 100% LDS, and very conducive for serious LDS students at NAU. If you are gay or Jewish, you'll find more like-minded people elsewhere. That's all that I'm saying.

[fcorrales80]

[quote=Tom Lane;9708315]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

Um Tom, STOP, you are making yourself look more uninformed and ignorant. WHO do you think organize and throw the Pride in the Pine event in Flagstaff? Some gay phantom organization??? LOL LOL, wow. What an uninformed poster. And Flag politics are dominated by democratic, protestant officials. NOT mormon, conservative officials.

Do a google search for GLBT chamber of commerce, gay chamber of commerce, GLBT business directory, etc. etc. and nothing can be found. The advice that many have posted on these forums suggests that gays best avoid Arizona, since there are no protections against employment or housing discrimination. Try NV, NM, Denver, or California.

The religious affiliation of the elected officials is really nobody's business. What we are talking about are policies favoring LDS businesses. No different than Jewish businesses in some areas of the US, or gay businesses in others. And, the Masons control many towns. It's just human nature, that's all I'm saying.

One's religious affiliation (and, sexual orientation for that matter!) should be a private matter in this country! The City of Flagstaff has favored some LDS owned businesses over the years, such as Home Depot, Marriott Internationale (4 Marriott Hotels on prime real estate), New Frontiers Natural Market (their flagship store), Little America hotels, etc. etc. Same thing in the Antelope Valley of California, where there are lots of Marriott hotels. And, Flag has a dark skies ordinance, sign codes, sign lights off after 11pm at night, burgundy/green LDS colors, etc. etc.

If you are LDS, young, and want to meet someone, Flag is a terrific place to live with the 5th highest concentration of LDS in the US and about 10 wards. Flagstaff 12% LDS: Top Mormon cities, counties | ScrippsNews
Atlas of LDS wards and stakes: Atlas of LDS (Mormon) Stakes<br> The United States
I don't know if the LDS Church "ranks" towns or not, but if they do, I would imagine that Flagstaff is ranked very high for "young singles."

If you are LDS, NAU is a great place for college, with about 4 LDS wards on campus. There are excellent programs for LDS students into sports and outdoor activities especially mountain biking. Some apartments are nearly 100% LDS, and very conducive for serious LDS students at NAU. If you are gay or Jewish, you'll find more like-minded people elsewhere. That's all that I'm saying.

LOL, struggling to prove you point and hitting no home-runs! Just because there are "wards" in Flagstaff or at a university doesn't mean it is LDS dominate. How many catholic students or protestant students, or no religion students are in Flag or NAU; over 92% Yeah, LDS strong-hold. Don't forget there are lots of persian, Asian, and smaller religious groups in Flagstaff and at NAU, so LDS isn't dominating anything.

Marriott International and the other companies you mentioned ARE not mormon owned but instead may have mormon stake holders. BIG DEAL! You say politicians and business owners' religions shouldn't matter, yet YOU are the one making a matter of the fact!!! Hmmmm, really, I think you need a serious look at yourself buddy! The gay chamber of commerce for Flagstaff, like I said, is a satellite office run through the Greater Phoenix Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce...get informed and stop posting falsities!

Arizona DOES have protection for gay residents as evidence in hate laws that the Flagstaff bashers are being prosecuted with. What's more, all major cities in Arizona offer their employees domestic partner benefits and the State's Domestic partner benefits are on hold this year because of the economic recession. California, New Mexico, Colorado, and Nevada all added state bans to gay marriage before Arizona. This happened in Arizona last year but was defeated before and is going to continue to be fought against in Arizona as gay rights groups seek to have it added to the ballot again. Flagstaff's city "colors" were chosen in pioneer days, LONG before mormon settlements. Green represents the city's site in green, pine forests not some hidden mormon message.

The dark skies ordinance is in support of the Lowell Observatory on top of the hill overlooking the town. This is one of the most prominent, deep space astronomical observatories in the World. The dark skies ordinance is not some Mormon conspiracy, LOL!!!

Also, it is a "green" ordinance. You know, anti-global warming, anti-high energy use! A very "liberal" agenda!!! Again, Tom, get informed!

[fcorrales80]

Also, you are wrong about Flagstaff being among the most LDS concentrated cities in the country here are some statistics to "enlighten" you! Guess what, Washington state makes the list of "mosts" for Mormon populations and communities...hmmmm. Of course Arizona is on the list, but not as much as Washington OR California. Go figure.

Latter-day Saints (LDS) / Mormon Statistics / Church of Jesus Christ Statistics

[CCCVDUR]

[quote=fcorrales80;9708471][quote=Tom Lane;9708315]

LOL, struggling to prove you point and hitting no home-runs! Just because there are "wards" in Flagstaff or at a university doesn't mean it is LDS dominate. Don't forget there are lots of persian, Asian, and smaller religious groups in Flagstaff and at NAU, so LDS isn't dominating anything.

I never said that NAU was LDS dominant. I said that Flagstaff is a good town for young Mormon singles to meet others.

Marriott International and the other companies you mentioned ARE not mormon owned but instead may have mormon stake holders.

Marriott was founded by Mormons, and the CEO I believe is still Mormon if his name is Marriott which I'm sure it still is. Ralston-Purina Cat Food (in Flag), was or still is LDS owned. Marriott: Famous Mormons in Business

You say politicians and business owners' religions shouldn't matter, yet YOU are the one making a matter of the fact!!! Hmmmm, really, I think you need a serious look at yourself buddy!

I lived in Flag for under a year and was rejected from positions in Mormon businesses, because I'm not LDS. Friends have had the same issue. Again, it is a good town for LDS families, but not necessarily the rest of us unless you are a college student at NAU, LDS or not. If I went to grad school at NAU, I'd do just fine, because the LDS business owners have no problem hiring college students, even if they're not LDS.

The gay chamber of commerce for Flagstaff, like I said, is a satellite office run through the Greater Phoenix Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce...get informed and stop posting falsities!

I did a google search and didn't find any reference to this. Please post a link I'd like to see it.

California, New Mexico, Colorado, and Nevada all added state bans to gay marriage before Arizona.

NM, Colorado, and Nevada have never banned gay marriage, only a handful of states have including CA, AZ, etc.

Flagstaff's city "colors" were chosen in pioneer days, LONG before mormon settlements. Green represents the city's site in green, pine forests not some hidden mormon message.

I'm not referring to the City colors. I'm referring to two things: 1) the LDS Church Primary colors of red, blue, yellow 2) the variation seen in LDS mountain communities of burgundy and dark green (such as Flagstaff and Durango)
LDS Primary Colors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_(LDS_Church)

The dark skies ordinance is not some Mormon conspiracy, LOL!!!

Mormon towns generally are sundown towns with very little nightlife. Flagstaff does have a sign ordinance to turn off neon signs at 11pm. That's another reason I prefer other places besides Flagstaff as I like 24/7 towns. I like to go out at 9pm at night and walk around and feel safe. Henderson, NV is also very LDS and the place shuts down in the residential neighborhoods at night. Compare that to Green Lake in Seattle where people run around it 24 hrs a day. Sedona, Cottonwood (also controlled by the LDS) have lighting codes at night: Flagstaff Dark Skies Coalition - Model Lighting Codes

Finally although you are questioning my credibility, I think most readers will note numerous links for the factual material that I've posted, and this is my policy on every discussion board that I participate in. I don't care what someone's religion is, but when you can't get a job because the majority of small business owners are of a particular religious faith, then one must move on as I've done. If you're a college student, LDS or not, you'll do fine in Flagstaff and will enjoy the arts and outdoors in Northern AZ

[CCCVDUR]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

Also, you are wrong about Flagstaff being among the most LDS concentrated cities in the country here are some statistics to "enlighten" you! Guess what, Washington state makes the list of "mosts" for Mormon populations and communities...hmmmm. Of course Arizona is on the list, but not as much as Washington OR California. Go figure.

Latter-day Saints (LDS) / Mormon Statistics / Church of Jesus Christ Statistics

Again, readers of these forums have already taken note of my previous reference demonstrating that Flagstaff is 12% LDS (posted again below).
Why you take offense I'm just not sure.

Personally I don't care about debating statistics. I'm an agnostic, and if you are Christian, Catholic, Buddhist, JW, or LDS, then you're better off than I am, since you have faith in something greater than anything on Earth that will extend into the afterlife. Quoting L. Ronn Hubbard below:
'
"If you are LDS, young, and want to meet someone, Flag is a terrific place to live with the 5th highest concentration of LDS in the US and about 10 wards. Flagstaff 12% LDS: Top Mormon cities, counties | ScrippsNews

L. Ronn Hubbard:
"Any advice one might give another on this subject is safest when it simply asserts the right to believe as one chooses. One is at liberty to hold up his own beliefs for acceptance. One is at risk when he seeks to assault the beliefs of others, much more so when he attacks and seeks to harm others because of their religious convictions.


Men without faith are a pretty sorry lot. They can even be given something to have faith in. But when they have religious beliefs, respect them.
The way to happiness can become contentious when one fails to respect the religious beliefs of others. " Ref:
Respect the Religious Beliefs of Others by L. Ron Hubbard

[fcorrales80]

[quote=Tom Lane;9708927][quote=fcorrales80;9708471]

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

LOL, struggling to prove you point and hitting no home-runs! Just because there are "wards" in Flagstaff or at a university doesn't mean it is LDS dominate. Don't forget there are lots of persian, Asian, and smaller religious groups in Flagstaff and at NAU, so LDS isn't dominating anything.

I never said that NAU was LDS dominant. I said that Flagstaff is a good town for young Mormon singles to meet others.

Marriott International and the other companies you mentioned ARE not mormon owned but instead may have mormon stake holders.

Marriott was founded by Mormons, and the CEO I believe is still Mormon if his name is Marriott which I'm sure it still is. Ralston-Purina Cat Food (in Flag), was or still is LDS owned. Marriott: Famous Mormons in Business

You say politicians and business owners' religions shouldn't matter, yet YOU are the one making a matter of the fact!!! Hmmmm, really, I think you need a serious look at yourself buddy!

I lived in Flag for under a year and was rejected from positions in Mormon businesses, because I'm not LDS. Friends have had the same issue. Again, it is a good town for LDS families, but not necessarily the rest of us unless you are a college student at NAU, LDS or not. If I went to grad school at NAU, I'd do just fine, because the LDS business owners have no problem hiring college students, even if they're not LDS.

The gay chamber of commerce for Flagstaff, like I said, is a satellite office run through the Greater Phoenix Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce...get informed and stop posting falsities!

I did a google search and didn't find any reference to this. Please post a link I'd like to see it.

California, New Mexico, Colorado, and Nevada all added state bans to gay marriage before Arizona.

NM, Colorado, and Nevada have never banned gay marriage, only a handful of states have including CA, AZ, etc.

Flagstaff's city "colors" were chosen in pioneer days, LONG before mormon settlements. Green represents the city's site in green, pine forests not some hidden mormon message.

I'm not referring to the City colors. I'm referring to two things: 1) the LDS Church Primary colors of red, blue, yellow 2) the variation seen in LDS mountain communities of burgundy and dark green (such as Flagstaff and Durango)
LDS Primary Colors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_(LDS_Church)

The dark skies ordinance is not some Mormon conspiracy, LOL!!!

Mormon towns generally are sundown towns with very little nightlife. Flagstaff does have a sign ordinance to turn off neon signs at 11pm. That's another reason I prefer other places besides Flagstaff as I like 24/7 towns. I like to go out at 9pm at night and walk around and feel safe. Henderson, NV is also very LDS and the place shuts down in the residential neighborhoods at night. Compare that to Green Lake in Seattle where people run around it 24 hrs a day. Sedona, Cottonwood (also controlled by the LDS) have lighting codes at night: Flagstaff Dark Skies Coalition - Model Lighting Codes

Finally although you are questioning my credibility, I think most readers will note numerous links for the factual material that I've posted, and this is my policy on every discussion board that I participate in. I don't care what someone's religion is, but when you can't get a job because the majority of small business owners are of a particular religious faith, then one must move on as I've done. If you're a college student, LDS or not, you'll do fine in Flagstaff and will enjoy the arts and outdoors in Northern AZ

You are trying to discredit Flagstaff by overstating small facts and turning them into leading causes. Dark skies doesn't mean they turn off street lights and ALL signage or safety lights, LOL LOL !!!! It means they must shield the light from projecting UPWARDS which would in fact make the Lowell Observatory useless!!! UGH, you are unbelievable. Flagstaff bars/clubs and nightlife venues serve full alcohol and are open until 2a.m., like most states which ban sales past 2a.m. Most mormon towns and cities have STRICT laws that forbid sales of alcohol in clubs and way before 2a.m. Even in Salt Lake City...however, this is not the case in Flagstaff.

States with gay constitutional bans and laws against gay marriage:
California California's supreme court upholds gay marriage ban | World news | guardian.co.uk

Colorado http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm...126444,00.html

Nevada Same-sex marriage ban might be costing Nevada - News - ReviewJournal.com

New Mexico New Mexico Senate OKs Gay Marriage Ban : Gay Rights Watch

There are over 40 states that ban gay marriage and 30 are state constitutional bans. ONLY A HANDFUL OF STATES ALLOW GAY MARRIAGE, only 6...five in the Northeast and one in the Midwest (Iowa) and some are not "full marriage" rights but civil unions:
Maine, fifth state to allow gay marriage - First Read - msnbc.com

Get your facts straight!!! If you personally don't care about other peoples' religion...why is it your main topic, specifically about Mormons??? Again, hmmmmm...

Flagstaff Gay Chamber run through Greater Phoenix office (partnership to help extend the advertising focus of Flagstaff [68,000residents] to a metro area nearby with a market of 4.3 million people)
http://www.gpglcc.org/directory/gpglcc_directory.pdf
an example: http://www.starlightpinesbb.com/links.htm (notice the Gay Rainbow Flag...that is the GPGLCC's "seal and link" scroll down and find the description of the link to the Greater Phoenix Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce[GPGLCC])

[CCCVDUR]

[quote=fcorrales80;9709010][quote=Tom Lane;9708927]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

You are trying to discredit Flagstaff by overstating small facts and turning them into leading causes. Dark skies doesn't mean they turn off street lights and ALL signage or safety lights, LOL LOL !!!! It means they must shield the light from projecting UPWARDS which would in fact make the Lowell Observatory useless!!! UGH, you are unbelievable.

States with gay constitutional bans and laws against gay marriage:
California California's supreme court upholds gay marriage ban | World news | guardian.co.uk

Colorado Voters pass gay marriage ban : Politics : The Rocky Mountain News

Nevada Same-sex marriage ban might be costing Nevada - News - ReviewJournal.com

New Mexico New Mexico Senate OKs Gay Marriage Ban : Gay Rights Watch

There are over 40 states that ban gay marriage and 30 are state constitutional bans. ONLY A HANDFUL OF STATES ALLOW GAY MARRIAGE, only 5...four in the Northeast and one in the Midwest (Iowa):
Maine, fifth state to allow gay marriage - First Read - msnbc.com

Get your facts straight!!! If you personally don't care about other peoples' religion...why is it your main topic, specifically about Mormons??? Again, hmmmmm...

New Mexico does not have a ban and it would never be signed by the Governor even if passed by the legislature since Santa Fe (the Capitol) is 15% GLBT and probably 85% Liberal - much higher than Flagstaff.

I've already answered the LDS issue. They wouldn't hire me because I wasn't LDS. Same thing has happened to friends. You already know that this happens in Flagstaff and also in Mesa so why you keep bringing it up I'm just not sure.

As for dark skies, Flagstaff does have an ordinance that neon signs should be turned off at 11pm. I don't like sundown towns. Santa Fe is the same way and it's depressing.

Flagstaff just is not a liberal place in regards to gay rights, unions, etc. -- the only issue they are "liberal" on are smart growth, impact fees, and NIMBY. Flagstaff has very few workers protections, very few unions, and no minimum wage. Look at Santa Fe, NM where the minimum wage is over $10 an hour.

Look, I know that you folks in Arizona, Colorado, and New Mexico don't understand the position of an outsider from the Left West Coast, just as you don't buy Realtor Allen Ginsberg's ideas from the East Coast. There are areas of the S.W. that are cliquish to those of us economically and socially liberal newcomers, and it is what it is and everything is cool. I don't care, because I don't live in Flagstaff anymore, and never would ever again, unless offered some VERY high paying job there in a union (never in a million years). Other than this, I love the City, it's a very special place.

Flagstaff's twin city of arts and the outdoors of Eugene, Oregon would be perfect for me politically, if not for the weather and 13% unemployment...same thing with Bend, Oregon; Corvallis, Oregon; etc. - all these places are very liberal to the extreme on the issues I've discussed in reference to Flagstaff ... Arizonans wouldn't stand it there, but that's just not the point here ... conversely, I wouldn't want to live in Arizona ever again. City-Data forums are for discussing these issues for people unhappy with their current locations ...

[fcorrales80]

[quote=Tom Lane;9709139][quote=fcorrales80;9709010]

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

New Mexico does not have a ban and it would never be signed by the Governor even if passed by the legislature since Santa Fe (the Capitol) is 15% GLBT and probably 85% Liberal - much higher than Flagstaff.

I've already answered the LDS issue. They wouldn't hire me because I wasn't LDS. Same thing has happened to friends. You already know that this happens in Flagstaff and also in Mesa so why you keep bringing it up I'm just not sure.

As for dark skies, Flagstaff does have an ordinance that neon signs should be turned off at 11pm. I don't like sundown towns. Santa Fe is the same way and it's depressing.

Flagstaff just is not a liberal place in regards to gay rights, unions, etc. -- the only issue they are "liberal" on are smart growth, impact fees, and NIMBY. Flagstaff has very few workers protections, very few unions, and no minimum wage. Look at Santa Fe, NM where the minimum wage is over $10 an hour.

Look, I know that you folks in Arizona, Colorado, and New Mexico don't understand the position of an outsider from the Left West Coast, just as you don't buy Realtor Allen Ginsberg's ideas from the East Coast. There are areas of the S.W. that are cliquish to those of us economically and socially liberal newcomers, and it is what it is and everything is cool. I don't care, because I don't live in Flagstaff anymore, and never would ever again, unless offered some VERY high paying job there in a union (never in a million years). Other than this, I love the City, it's a very special place.

Flagstaff's twin city of arts and the outdoors of Eugene, Oregon would be perfect for me politically, if not for the weather and 13% unemployment...same thing with Bend, Oregon; Corvallis, Oregon; etc. - all these places are very liberal to the extreme on the issues I've discussed in reference to Flagstaff ... Arizonans wouldn't stand it there, but that's just not the point here ... conversely, I wouldn't want to live in Arizona ever again. City-Data forums are for discussing these issues for people unhappy with their current locations ...

Right!!! Still scapping for life!!! LOL, Backtrack some more!!! You are a bs poster, bordering on an awful word I hate calling people...troll! I thought Colorado and New Mexico were really liberal, according to your prior posts??? Now they aren't after I pointed out that they all ban gay marriage??? Even the "Left West Coast" states of Washington and Oregon!!! LOL LOL

Washington:
Texts :
Washington Revised Code - Title 26. Domestic relations - Chapter 04. Marriage
26.04.010. Marriage contract -- Void marriages.
(1) Marriage is a civil contract between a male and a female who have each attained the age of eighteen years, and who are otherwise capable of producing children. 26.04.020. Prohibited marriages.
(1) Marriages in the following cases are prohibited: ...(c) When the parties are persons other than a male and a female.
(3) A marriage between two persons that is recognized as valid in another jurisdiction is valid in this state only if the marriage is not prohibited or made unlawful under subsection ... (1)(c) ... of this section.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/

Oregon:

Court backs gay marriage ban
Measure 36 - Gay-rights supporters argued that the initiative was too sweeping to be on the ballot
Thursday, May 22, 2008
ASHBEL S. GREEN
The Oregonian Staff
The Oregon Court of Appeals on Wednesday upheld the ban on gay marriage that state voters approved by a wide margin in 2004.

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/o...160.xml&coll=7

Yeah, those liberal Oregonians banned gay marriage on the state constitution "BY A WIDE MARGIN." And WAY before Arizona did so and with a GREATER percentage of the population as well!!! Hmmmm, how liberal is that!

Please post a link proving your liberal statistics for Santa Fe vs Flagstaff. Also, because YOU say "you and a friend" had trouble being hired by Mormon firms in Flagstaff because you are not LDS isn't stating a fact and could very well be a lie. Can you prove that this happens in Flagstaff or Mesa..AND no I don't know this happens in Flag or Mesa because I know people that are gay and work in both cities.

[Gandalara]

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

Quoting L. Ronn Hubbard below:

"If you are LDS, young, and want to meet someone, Flag is a terrific place to live with the 5th highest concentration of LDS in the US and about 10 wards.

Just a minor quibble here ... L. Ron Hubbard died January 24, 1986. So the quote might be (is) old.

So sue me ... I'm a science fiction geek

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by Gandalara

Just a minor quibble here ... L. Ron Hubbard died January 24, 1986. So the quote might be (is) old.

So sue me ... I'm a science fiction geek

To say the least! LOL