How do you like Flagstaff?

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

As for dark skies, Flagstaff does have an ordinance that neon signs should be turned off at 11pm. I don't like sundown towns. Santa Fe is the same way and it's depressing.

Flagstaffs requirement for turning off the neon is because of the OBSERVATORY Tom.

Deal with it.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

New Mexico does not have a ban and it would ...

Nevada has a ban against Gay Marriage Tom. The VOTERS approved it.

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by Greatday

Nevada has a ban against Gay Marriage Tom. The VOTERS approved it.

New Mexico also does not recognize gay marriage and its state laws forbid it.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

New Mexico also does not recognize gay marriage and its state laws forbid it.

It is fairly obvious the OP has an agenda - and the towns he rails against do not fit that agenda.

[poolgirl51]

This thread has been quite entertaining to follow, ridiculous, but entertaining none the less. I do have to ask Tom why, with all the places in the US to live, do you live in Flag when it is very clear you just hate the place. I would of course miss you posts here as they give me my weekly giggle.

I do hope that someday you find a place where you can be happy! Best of luck to you. Take Care.

[CCCVDUR]

poolgirl51
Senior Member
friend of dreamboatannie953 - befriend
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Northern Arizona
213 posts, read 139,061 times
Reputation: 91



This thread has been quite entertaining to follow, ridiculous, but entertaining none the less. I do have to ask Tom why, with all the places in the US to live, do you live in Flag when it is very clear you just hate the place. I would of course miss you posts here as they give me my weekly giggle.

I do hope that someday you find a place where you can be happy! Best of luck to you. Take Care.

Poolgirl:
I don't hate Flagstaff. I'm not unhappy, just terribly frustrated and deeply saddened. As I've said in my posts over many months, Flagstaff is a wonderful mountain town full of very intelligent, environmentally conscious, and fitness minded individuals who love the outdoors and Northern Arizona. That is my demographic. It's a very unique place with few places like it.

The consistent thread behind my posts is a deep personal concern for the people, the cost of living, and the local economic conditions. As you know the towns nicknames include "poverty with a view," and "ghetto in the meadow."

The cost of living is too high due to a lack of affordable RENTAL housing, low wages, and not enough cheap grocery stores such as Superwallmart, Trader Joes, and Costco.

This is due to in part to excessive land use restrictions and policies such as "smart growth" and "impact fees."

The majority of Flagstaff residents support measures to decrease the cost of living. For example, they voted down the City Council's anti-big box ordinance.

Although on this forum I passionately express my suggestions, in real life I am not much of an advocate. Any successful politician knows that to succeed, you have to sit down, listen to the other side, and compromise. I'm not a politician, but in the communications business, I work with people who I totally disagree with, and we have to sit down and come to an agreement.

Flag is in economic decline - look at the Subaru dealer closing; the Blockbuster and Bashas bankruptcy, and the decrease in size of the Arizona Daily Sun newspaper. Support your local grocery stores and newspapers.

While we may not all agree on the solutions to the low wages and unemployment here, we still care about our neighbors. So we all need to sit down, and come up with solutions here. The most successful politicians CAREFULLY listen to EVERYONE'S opinions before coming up with answers. Nobody in politics is 100% correct. So listening to dissenting viewpoints helps one improve their own ideas. On City-Data I rep people who disagree with me because they make me re-consider my ideas.

Flagstaff will find its way out of this recession. Flagstaff is a City with highly educated people who care.

P.S. In reference to the previous posters 'fcorrales' and 'greatday' with sarcastic rhetoric, I really could care less about marriage statutes or neon signs. Except for people like them, most people don't care about gay marriage, because society has become more liberal. Lou Dobbs doesn't care about it. What we are talking about the Middle Class in Flagstaff, which is shrinking. This should be a priority among policymakers, not these peripheral issues. I would like to hear opinions from others on how to restore the Middle Class in Flagstaff.

[outclassed]

Alright, I will bite...
Our family has thought about moving to back to Arizona for quite some time. We feel that Flagstaff would be the perfect place for us but for other reasons than the typical, i.e. most of our family lives nearby. Of course it would be great to go to NAU for grad school and of course the quality of life would be fantastic.
My question is why do the rich keep getting richer in Flagstaff and the poor remain poor? At least that is what is sounds like based on the posts in these threads. I mean what are these wealthy people even doing for work in Flagstaff? Where or what are these high-paying jobs and great careers that the 'rest' seem to missing out on? And what makes them so unattainable?

This is what I am getting from reading around:
NAU does not pay well
GORE won't hire you
Purina is at capacity
FUSD won't hire you (and won't pay you)
Healthcare, well.....
and so on...

So what is it, what is it that we are all missing out on? Only a few can be wealthy? Or do we just need to suck it up and figure it out too, or did all the wealthy inherit it or had a ton of luck in Flagstaff?
Oh, and why doesn't anybody compare Flag to Park City. I know PC is much smaller in population but both towns seem pretty comparable otherwise?

Any help...

[CCCVDUR]

Originally Posted by outclassed

Alright, I will bite...
Our family has thought about moving to back to Arizona for quite some time. We feel that Flagstaff would be the perfect place for us but for other reasons than the typical, i.e. most of our family lives nearby.

Of course it would be great to go to NAU for grad school and of course the quality of life would be fantastic.

My question is why do the rich keep getting richer in Flagstaff and the poor remain poor?

At least that is what is sounds like based on the posts in these threads.

I mean what are these wealthy people even doing for work in Flagstaff?

Where or what are these high-paying jobs and great careers that the 'rest' seem to missing out on? And what makes them so unattainable?

This is what I am getting from reading around:

NAU does not pay well
GORE won't hire you
Purina is at capacity
FUSD won't hire you (and won't pay you)
Healthcare, well.....
and so on...

So what is it, what is it that we are all missing out on?
Only a few can be wealthy?
Or do we just need to suck it up and figure it out too, or did all the wealthy inherit it or had a ton of luck in Flagstaff?
Oh, and why doesn't anybody compare Flag to Park City.
I know PC is much smaller in population but both towns seem pretty comparable otherwise?

Any help...

Interesting comparison. I haven't been to Park City and if I visit there I'll look for similarities. I see similarities with places, too. In particular, I compare Flagstaff to Durango, Colorado.

They look alike in terms of the terrain, mountains, architecture, scenery, politics -- and both have avid outdoors enthusiasts into skiing, mountain biking, photography, etc.

Durango has lower unemployment than Flagstaff, and overall, there is probably more money in Durango / Telluride along with much better skiing.

Salida, Colorado; Pagosa Springs, CO; and Alamosa, Colorado are all much, much smaller than Flag and Durango, but are similar in terms of outdoor enthusiasts.

Boulder is overpopulated with too much traffic, and has essentially lost its small town identity.

On the other hand, there are more Professional, Scientific, and Technical Service jobs in Boulder compared to these other places (check the City-Data.Com Statistics for each city).

Boulder is rated as the best city in the US for upper white middle class singles. If you're not upper white middle class, don't even try to move there, as you'll get stuck in expensive campgrounds because the motels are unaffordable (been there, done that) ... at least Flagstaff and Durango have free camping outside the City limits in the national forests.<grin>

I think what is missing in ALL of these places (including Flagstaff, but excluding Boulder) are more Professional, Scientific, and Technical services. These positions, along with timber, organic agriculture, solar energy, coal plants, manufacturing and construction jobs, all provide jobs for the middle class.

Flagstaff Major Employers (that you mention above) from the Chamber of Commerce (separate office than The City of Flagstaff):
Flagstaff Chamber of Commerce - Economic and Workforce Development

[LinaJo76]

I love Flagstaff. Great stores, a couple of good bars too (the 2 I've been to before), and my favorite bookstore is there too (Bookman's). It's a great town. I love it.

But I'm not much of cold weather person, so I don't like it during the winter (snows a lot!!BRRRRR!!).

[outclassed]

Tom,
I am not sure if you actually answered my questions?
Perhaps they are unanswerable? I am not sure...anybody else have opinions regarding this subject?

Also, I have been reading around the forums and I have noticed some of Tom's posts regarding high altitude and the effects it could have on moods. I have to say I do not agree although I understand his comments are just theory. I think it really depends on attitude. I have lived in high places and low places and I have to say I was more depressed at sea level than at 8,000 feet. And I love the ocean...

Anyway, just rambling...