Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm very glad you posted. I've had many "discussions" with steve-o on this board about his scorpian comments and the fact that he doesn't even live here - just visits - yet spends quite a bit of time telling people how common it is to see scorpians. While I'm the first one to admit that they're here, most people living average suburban lives rarely, if ever, encounter them. Again - I'm knocking loudly on wood
Additionally, I'm very happy to read info from someone who doesn't call people names, including "bonehead" for making a mistake or for not being an expert on something. Frankly, it's hard to respect someone's knowledge of a subject when they mock people and you've been refreshingly respectful with your scorpian comments. At any rate, I hope you'll continue to post here.
Thanks for your kind words.
I agree with much of what Steve-o has said but disagree with a some of it. He is, of course, entitled to his opinion. I'm coming from the perspective of actually treating people in the emergency department which Steve-o is not.
We'd both agree, I suppose, that these damn bark scorpions HURT like hell... and the symptoms can last for what seems like forever, but typically resolve in 24-36 hours (but some patients can have some numbness at the immediate site of the sting lasting for several weeks).
The most important thing to remember is that NO ONE has died of a scorpion sting in more than 40 years.
I'm very glad you posted. I've had many "discussions" with steve-o on this board about his scorpion comments and the fact that he doesn't even live here - just visits - yet spends quite a bit of time telling people how common it is to see scorpions. While I'm the first one to admit that they're here, most people living average suburban lives rarely, if ever, encounter them. Again - I'm knocking loudly on wood
Additionally, I'm very happy to read info from someone who doesn't call people names, including "bonehead" for making a mistake or for not being an expert on something. Frankly, it's hard to respect someone's knowledge of a subject when they mock people and you've been refreshingly respectful with your scorpion comments. At any rate, I hope you'll continue to post here.
I am not sure if you can back this one up. More than 1/2 the people I know deal with a scorpion problem. You might live in an area not likely to have them, but there are pockets all over the valley that have them. My daughters school has so many, they see them up in the light fixtures. I have seen at least one every time I volunteer there in a box or desk. Especially those of you moving here now and buying in the outlying areas such as Maricopa and Queen Creek will have them. Might as well get educated and stop blaming Steve-o for scaring you. It's a pain in the arse living with a harmful bug. You act different, relaxing becomes a bit harder believe me. If your the kind of person who will not adjust to living with them, don't get mad at the messenger, just take the proper precautions and call a exterminator. They can't get rid of them but they can tell you what areas they get a lot of scorpion calls in. Don't purchase in those areas. This is AZ, it is hard to live here without something to worry about. Scorpions are a pain, if you don't like creepy crawly' then you won't be able to live with scorps. The brown cloud is also hard to live with, you have a 79% higher chance of dying earlier from heart and lung disease. We have the highest amount of west nile here, your also more likely to get shot, or robbed and more likely to get heat stroke. Not to mention, if you didn't grow up here your sure to get valley fever shortly after you arrive, which is a illness common to AZ from the dust. Your less likely to make a decent income, and, more likely to suffer from depression. Your kids will be more likely to drop out of high school, or commit suicide, and if they don't they are more likely to be stupid and not prepared. Gee, I wonder why? If your tough enough to brave the old west, then scorpions won't bother you, and you can just enjoy the information. Getting mad at people who tell you a few facts you don't want to hear is ridiculous, just because you don't want to hear it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. We do have scorpions, in our houses and yards. More than just a few, in more than just a few homes. We have the old killer bees too! The desert in a rough place, you have to be a tough sort or you'll be unhappy. Food for thought!
I am not sure if you can back this one up. More than 1/2 the people I know deal with a scorpion problem. You might live in an area not likely to have them, but there are pockets all over the valley that have them. My daughters school has so many, they see them up in the light fixtures. I have seen at least one every time I volunteer there in a box or desk. Especially those of you moving here now and buying in the outlying areas such as Maricopa and Queen Creek will have them. Might as well get educated and stop blaming Steve-o for scaring you. It's a pain in the arse living with a harmful bug. You act different, relaxing becomes a bit harder believe me. If your the kind of person who will not adjust to living with them, don't get mad at the messenger, just take the proper precautions and call a exterminator. They can't get rid of them but they can tell you what areas they get a lot of scorpion calls in. Don't purchase in those areas. This is AZ, it is hard to live here without something to worry about. Scorpions are a pain, if you don't like creepy crawly' then you won't be able to live with scorps. The brown cloud is also hard to live with, you have a 79% higher chance of dying earlier from heart and lung disease. We have the highest amount of west nile here, your also more likely to get shot, or robbed and more likely to get heat stroke. Not to mention, if you didn't grow up here your sure to get valley fever shortly after you arrive, which is a illness common to AZ from the dust. Your less likely to make a decent income, and, more likely to suffer from depression. Your kids will be more likely to drop out of high school, or commit suicide, and if they don't they are more likely to be stupid and not prepared. Gee, I wonder why? If your tough enough to brave the old west, then scorpions won't bother you, and you can just enjoy the information. Getting mad at people who tell you a few facts you don't want to hear is ridiculous, just because you don't want to hear it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. We do have scorpions, in our houses and yards. More than just a few, in more than just a few homes. We have the old killer bees too! The desert in a rough place, you have to be a tough sort or you'll be unhappy. Food for thought!
First, I'm not blaming the messenger at all and I'm certainly not "mad" at people who tell me facts - I quite enjoy reading actual facts, rather then generalizations and assumptions not backed up by facts. And Steve-o definitey does not "scare me" with his scorpion talk. I fault his delivery, which I've talked to him about via private message, but not his overall message. I've never said we don't have bugs. What I've said is that they are not a problem everywhere, which a few people have alluded to in the past. Of course there are pockets that are worse then others. However, I know people who live in various areas all over the valley as well as Tucson, and none have had problems. Apparently you live in an area that's a problem, which is too bad. But for every person like you who sees them every day, there are people like me who's never seen one (I'm sure it's just a matter of time before I do see one but I've been here 4 yrs and it hasn't happened yet...knock wood). THAT'S my issue - that only the horror stories are told on this board and not the other side. Yes, we have bugs and snakes. But so does every other state. Good luck finding a place that doesn't have some kind of nasty critter to deal with.
As for your other contentions - I'm definitely not sure you can back those up - at least I couldn't with a few quick Google searches. You said that we'll all develop Valley Fever shortly after moving here...???? Seriously??? Everyone you know has VF????? I know no one who has it. Your comment that west nile is worse in AZ: 27 states, according to a 8/17/07 cbsnews.com article, have West Nile with CA leading the pack at "86 cases, more then any other state" followed by CO, SD, ND and WY. 15 deaths this year, with not one in AZ.
I found no evidence to back up your assertion that our AZ kids are more likely to drop out of school - a report by the Manhatten Institute I pulled up said that GA, followed by NV, FL and DC have the highest drop out rates. However, I fully admit that the education system in AZ needs a LOT of work and I wish it was a higher priority.
Likewise - your contention that you have a 79% higher chance of dying from heart and lung disease - where did you find these stats? I found this:
which says that AZ had 10,870 cardiac deaths, with CA the highest at 72K. Obviously CA has a larger population, so their number will be higher. But looking at states with likely comparable population sizes, and even states with probable smaller populations, AZ still is not the highest among them though I'm just guesstimating and haven't researched actual population sizes. Also, these are 1999 stats and I admit I haven't taken the time to find more recent stats. I did find this:
which says that AZ has a high incidence of heart disease (not deaths, as you contended). However, Native Americans, American Indians have a higher rate of heart disease which will effect the AZ numbers, as well as the higher percentage of elderly. Race and age of the population plays a role when comparing health stats b/c of predispositions to various issues among different people.
I'm also curious about your assertion that we have a higher rate of depression in AZ. I wasn't able to find that anywhere. The few things I pulled up said UT and RI had the highest rates for adults, ID and NV for teens.
re: your assertion that we're more likely to get shot or robbed here in AZ then any other state - the crime issue has been talked about here many times every time someone posts one of those annual survey results. I quickly found this, though it's 2004 stats:
I'm sure there are more recent stats, which you're welcome to post. However, I maintain that the average person living an average life in an average suburb is no more likely to be robbed or shot here then they are in DC, Chicago, NYC or other large metro areas.
Income levels nationwide are related to cost of living - it's lower here then some areas, so some income levels will be lower. However, it depends on your job. We make more here then we did back east, as do many others we know.
If you have contradicting statistics for my points as well as evidence backing up your other claims, I'd be interested in reading them. It's very possible I'm wrong on some of these b/c there's newer research.
However, my overall point is that most of us average people, who have average health status and seek regular health care , who don't frequent crack houses, live in nice, clean neighborhoods, who are proactive in our kids' educations and in their lives in general, will probably lead the same kind of average life as we would in any other large metro area, with the same chance of something bad happening to us here as we would in another large metro area.
Food for thought
This is what happens when it's a slow day for me at work....I have too much time on my hands which results in lengthy responses.
Since the early 1990s, residents of the Valley of the Sun have been looking for some relief of their own. The "Brown Cloud", as it has come to be known, shrouds the Phoenix area in pollutants nearly year-round resulting in the American Lung Association giving Maricopa County its lowest grade for air quality in both ozone and particulates in 2005.
According to the association's "State of the Air 2005" report, over 2.6 million, or 79%, of the county's residents are at high risk for respiratory complications due to air quality.
According to the Brown Cloud Summit's final report, the process described above not only obscures the once clearly visible mountains surrounding the Valley, it also contributes to higher than average incidents of health problems, especially respiratory ailments including allergies and asthma, leading to higher than normal mortality rates from heart and lung diseases.
According to the National Center for Educational Statistics, fewer students in Arizona finish high school than in any other state. From October 1998 to October 2000, fewer than 75 percent of Arizonans 18 to 24 years old had completed high school or earned an equivalent credential; down 10 percentage points from a decade ago. The national average is 86.5 percent as of October 2000.As has been well documented in the past year, Arizona is in the midst of a
major crisis—a ‘dropout crisis’ that questions the quality of our state’s
education system, stunts opportunities for Arizona’s youth, and stifles the
growth of our state’s economy.
Levy said it’s difficult to predict the potential severity of a given West Nile season, which can start as early as late April and can last into October. Of the 150 confirmed cases last year, 10 people died. Arizona’s worst year was 2004, when 391 cases were reported and 16 people died.
[edit]US related topics
[hide]
v • d • e
tice Statistics. Retrieved on 2006-09-27.
^ Bureau of Justice Statistics, crime 1974-2004. Retrieved on 2006-09-26.
Listen, I was being obviously sarcastic but my point was there are worse things to worry about in AZ. We really do have problems here that need attention, and I'm sorry, its worse here than (not all) but most other states.
As far as Valley Fever, of course you will get it at some point after you live here. Most all natives have had VF. Get a test at the doc's. You might have already had it!
Does everyone in Arizona get Valley Fever?
It is estimated that about one third of the people in the lower desert areas of Arizona have had Valley Fever at some point. Your chances of getting Valley Fever are about 1 out of 33, but the longer you live in the Desert Southwest the higher your chances of infection. There are about 100,000 new cases of Valley Fever each year. You don't have to live here to get it--people visiting or traveling through the area have been infected, too.
Are some people at higher risk of getting Valley Fever?
Valley Fever doesn't seem to play favorites, with all kinds of people at equal risk. Once infected, however, certain groups seem to have more instances of it spreading to other parts of their bodies; as far as gender is concerned, men are more likely than women, and African Americans and Filipinos are more likely when considering race. People with problem immune systems are also at risk.
Construction workers, farm workers or others who spend time working in dirt and dust are most likely to get Valley Fever. You are also at higher risk if you are caught in dust storms, or if your recreation, such as biking or 4-wheeling, takes you to dusty areas. One thing you can do to minimize your risk of getting Valley fever is to wear a mask if you have to be out in blowing dust.
What are the symptoms of Valley Fever?
About two thirds of the people who are infected never notice any symptoms, or experience mild symptoms and never even get treatment. Those who have sought treatment showed symptoms including fatigue, cough, chest pain, fever, rash, headache and joint aches. Sometimes people develop red bumps on their skin. In about 5% of the cases, nodules develop on the lungs which might look like lung cancer in a chest x-ray. A biopsy or surgery may be necessary to determine if the nodule is a result of Valley Fever. Another 5% of people develop what is referred to as a lung cavity. This is most common with older people, and more than half of the cavities disappear after a while without treatment. If the lung cavity ruptures, however, there may be chest pain and difficulty breathing.
Is there a cure for Valley Fever?
There is no vaccine at this time for Valley Fever. Most people are able to fight off Valley Fever on their own without treatment. They don't get it again. For those that seek treatment, antifungal drugs (not antibiotics) are used. Although these treatments are often helpful, the disease may persist and years of treatment may be required. If a lung cavity ruptures as mentioned above, surgery may be necessary.
Can my dog get Valley Fever?
Yes, dogs can get it and might need long term medication. Horses, cattle sheep and other animals can also get Valley Fever.
Is Valley Fever contagious?
No. You cannot get it from another person or from an animal.
Do people die from Valley Fever?
Less than 1% of the people who get Valley Fever die from it.
Are there Valley Fever experts that I can consult?
Pulmonary specialists and many local family physicians and hospitals are very familiar with Valley Fever. Physicians in other parts of the country seldom see cases of Valley Fever and, therefore, might not recognize it. You should make sure your doctor knows that you have been to the Southwest and emphasize that you want to be tested for Valley Fever. If you need a medical referral in your area, call the Valley Fever Center for Excellence at (520) 629-4777.
More About Valley Fever
Valley Fever Center for Excellence
Valley Fever Vaccine Project of the Americas
Valley Fever and Dogs
Almost missed this one:
Arizona's teen suicide rate is higher than the national average. In 2002, there were 12 suicides in Arizona among 10- to 14-year-olds and 39 suicides in the 15- to 19-year-old age group. Three children commit suicide each month in our state. (Arizona Department of Health Services).
Scorpion Stings in Greater Phoenix
1996-1997
My zip code is 85226 and not even on this map. So I would say this was a low estimate. Anything newer would be appreciated
Listen, I was being obviously sarcastic but my point was there are worse things to worry about in AZ. .
Your sarcasm in your response to mine was lost on me. Your post came across to me as you relaying facts - you used statistics - and I disputed your comments. I'd recommend that, in the future, if you disagree with someone, you not start off by saying "I'm not sure you can back this up" then proceed to spew out a bunch of information that's blatantly incorrect which you, in fact, "can't back up."
Yes, AZ has problems. Of course it does! EVERY city does. But the claims that you made were, for the most part, incorrect. You'll note that I never disagreed with you about the air pollution and the brown cloud. I agree that it's a big problem. As well, I said the education system needs a lot of work, I said we do have crime, I said people do die here of coronaries...I've never claimed PHX is some kind of utopia and I've always agreed that we have problems to deal with.
The point of my contention is when people come on this board and say things that simpley aren't true....how we have a better chance of dropping dead here then any other state, how EVERYONE has Valley Fever (and that's simply not true and you proved it with the follow-up info you posted, which said maybe 1/3 of the people have it, and you neglected to say in your initial post that it's, for the most part in most people, not harmful), how terrible the scorpions are....etc, etc. IMO, posting FACTUAL information, or being clear that what your posting is your opinion, is helfpul to people. Posting "sarcastic" comments which do not come across as sarcastic to many, especially when statistics are used, is not.
I live on a mountain preserve, we have rattle snakes, scorpions, coyotes, road runners, quail, rabbits and more. But, none of them come into our house except the scorpions. When we first bought the house, we would find 5-7 per year. So, we decided to do something about it. After researching, talking with other locals and local pest control companies, we determined that there is no treatment directly for scorpions. But, we did take a strong stance against crickets and other scorpion food items. Now I am happy to say that we rarely even find 1 per year in the home!
So, there is hope for those who are afraid of scorpians!
Yes, we have scorpions where I live too (85255)...and they are not a favorite of mine. We get 10-12 a year, all different types and sizes. Some are tiny, smaller than a pencil eraser and some are as big as the ones you see in those tacky paperweights at Souvenir Shops!
Since they can get in your house through an opening no wider than the thickness of a credit card, there is not much you can do about them, other than normal extermination to rid the area of scorpion food aka crickets.
When I do see one and my DH is not at home, I smash them with a 5lb hand weight. Does the trick every time and I don't have to get to close to them to squash them. One other interesting note...they can and will play dead when they are very much alive....so be careful before you pick one up!!
...one more tidbit worth mentioning...we only see them at night during the months of June-Sept. So, if you are a winter visitor, your chance of an encounter is limited!!
They dont play dead per se, theyre just freaked out and dont move. They sense movement via setae, or fine little hairs that are all over their bodies. When something too big comes along, they freeze, hoping to avoid detection.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
5,743,834 504.1 7.2 33.0 134.4 329.4 5,340.5 990.4 3,387.2 962.9 5,844.6
