should I move family to UK (Florence: living in, restaurants, average cost)

[Cyanna]

Anarchy - fully agree with your last post. One of the biggest bugbears for my British husband is that too many complain to family and friends about the state the UK is in, but none are willing to speak out publicly. Crime also will continue to rise until people stop closing their curtains, locking their doors and hiding from what is happening on their own doorstep. The police are more than willing to come out and try to deal with a problem, but if the victim or complainant refuses to give a statement or appear in court the police are just wasting their time. The police can only do so much and a lack of cooperation just makes their job harder. A couple of other people on my street have security cameras but the police only knock on our door now if they want to see if anyone captured a crime on cctv/security camera. We are the only ones who will gladly cooperate!

Anna Maria - sounds tempting in Dubai, except for a few things...my daughter and granddaughter (and other grandchild on the way) don't live there, and neither do my father or siblings. I also doubt if they have any Taco Bell or Arbys restaurants in Dubai, LOL! Nope, its the good ol' US of A for me, and once I get home I plan to STAY there!

Let me ask you a question though...could it not be that those in the UK who claim their healthcare through the NHS is "fine" is due to the fact that they have never experienced health care elsewhere, like in France or the United States? Many Brits are now going to France, Germany and Austria for health care because it is considered of a much higher standard. When I first arrived in the UK I was thrilled that we would be getting FREE health care, but the quality of care has been so frightening that I would rather pay for health insurance back in the States. I've never had a bad experience in an American hospital or with an American doctor. I must admit though that an inexperienced nurse in a California hospital nearly caused the death of both myself and my son while I was in labor with him. But other than that, no problems. The doctors and nurses were so quick to react to that nurse's blunder that I suffered very little trauma from the incident. On the opposite side of the fence, the care I've had through the NHS system has left me severly traumatised, to the point where I am now seeing a therapist.

[Cyanna]

Okay, I think its only fair to share some good things about the UK, at least from a personal perspective. Some people on this thread who are from the UK disagree with my comments, which is fair. At least they have remained civil and intelligent in their responses, except for one or two exceptions

So, good thing numero uno - There ARE civilized British people, as evidenced by many of you on this thread, even though a very few on here have shown themselves to be rather UNcivilized Brits

Good point number 2 - The UK provided my husband, son and I with a country to live in as a family instead of giving us all the grief that we received from the former INS. My American government chased me away from my homeland and the British government offered me shelter. For that I AM and will remain, eternally grateful.

Good point number 3 - the UK does have some of the loveliest countryside in the world, very much like the New England states. There is also a plethora of historical buildings and sites that can be accessed FREE of charge or for very little cost. In the United States most historical venues cost an arm and a leg to get into. My son and I have experienced what it feels like to be inside a medieval castle where we can actually TOUCH the old walls, we have experienced the beauty of old churches, cathedrals and priories which I can still appreciate even though I am a bit of a non-religious heathen My son and I experienced the thrill of climbing into a bronze age burial chamber and eating our lunch with our backs resting against ancient stone pillars erected by the Celtic tribes. History still lives in the land of the Brits. My husband says that he learned to appreciate the history of his land through my eyes and the way I caress the ancient stonework.

Good point number 4 - I have made some very good friends in this country, one in particular whose loyalty and love as a friend has outshown any friendships I had in the USA. This friend and her family will be following us to Arizona as soon as they can.

Good point number 5 - Living in the UK brought me local "fame" so that I am now well known to many certain groups in the UK. This "fame" could not have come to me without the respect and kindness of many people.

Good point number 6 - my son will at least have this experience to tell his grandchildren some day.

Good point number 7 - my son has a lovely BRITISH girlfriend who I think the world of. Although it is far too soon to know for sure, she may one day be my daughter-in-law, and I would be proud to have her as part of my family. She also wishes to move to the United States with us.

Good point number 8 - British food...well...erm...not really a whole lot I like about it, but I am a rather picky eater. Main meals are not great here, but the Brits do make some very nice pastries, puddings and cakes with very interesting names

Good point number 9 - I FINALLY inherited some lovely in-laws. My husband has a wonderful family full of warm, welcoming and loving people. More than I can say about the family of my first husband

Good point number 10 - living in another country has helped me to fully realize and understand just how much my own homeland and fellow American people mean to me.

Good point number 11 - Chupacabra' is not my neighbor! LOL!

[aj661]

Originally Posted by awoods

Hi all,

I need some advice please. I am a british citizen, married to an American, we have 2 kids aged 3/5.

I have not been home for 7 years, but I have been trying to pursuade my husband to leave Arizona for the UK, he is a native of Arizona and has never visited the UK.

He is thinking of entertaining the idea, but is also very concerned that he will not like it.

We do not have jobs set up, but we are going to move with some savings, so that would be a start.

I am sick of the heat, and feel my kids would possibly enjoy the cooler weather, the fresh air, plus all my family live in the UK.

I would really appreicate some input from anyone that has made the move with their family, or is thinking about it, or anyone that thinks its a crazy idea or a good idea. I am at a loss, any advice would be welcome
Thanks
A

Originally Posted by Cyanna

For anyone considering a move to the UK, please read these informative articles first. They are from a wide range of newspapers, medical sources and personal accounts throughout the UK...

Ambulance worker mentions lack of nurses wearing gloves:
BBC - Radio 1 - News - Are our hospitals too dirty?

Doctor not wearing gloves to draw blood:
icStafford - Worried daughter slams 'dirty' wards

Dirty hospitals must clean up, says Brown | Politics | The Observer

Patient who overcame leukaemia killed by a dirty hospital shower - Times Online

Superbug claims 49 lives in top hospitals | UK News | The Observer

BBC - BBC THREE - Mischief

No quick fix for dirty hands in UK hospitals:study

Consumer group uncovers hospital caterers' dirty secrets | Health | SocietyGuardian.co.uk

Ummah News Links

NetDoctor.co.uk - Daily news

MRSA and hospitals

This one is a very good source, which are comments made by those who LIVE in the UK about the substandard cleanliness of UK hospitals.
Yahoo! UK News Message Boards - MRSA

BBC News | HEALTH | Dirty hospitals 'named and shamed'

The Sun Online - News: Muslims 'refuse anti-MRSA gel'

http://www.healthcarecommission.org....s/04021935.pdf

'Dirty Dentist Cleaned Ears With Equipment' - UK News Headlines

Doctors who don't wash hands kill more people than drink drivers | the Daily Mail

Patients should tell doctors to wash their hands - Telegraph

Thousands of hospital staff fail to wash hands correctly - Telegraph

UK hospitals lagging behind all other European countries in cleanliness, except for Romania:
Hospitals must be taken to the cleaners | Camilla Cavendish - Times Online

Info on Health, Fitness, Diet, Gardening, Wine, Mortgage, Loans, Travel

Originally Posted by Cyanna

More links regarding problems in the UK that might be of concern to prospective immigrants to the UK:

UK youths 'among worst in Europe'
BBC NEWS | UK | UK youths 'among worst in Europe'

British adults 'fear youngsters'
BBC NEWS | UK | British adults 'fear youngsters'

UK cancer survival rates are among the worst in Europe
UK cancer survival rates are among the worst in Europe - Times Online

U.K. stroke outcome worst in Europe
ScienceDaily: U.K. stroke outcome worst in Europe

Shamed Again:
'UK shamed again...'

UK 'fails child cancer patients'
UK 'fails child cancer patients' - Worldnews.com

Teen drinking 'remains a worry'
BBC NEWS | Health | Teen drinking 'remains a worry'

British Nursing News:
British Nursing News Online - Search Results for "binge" AND ""

Two faces of British youth in thrall to sinister Muslim sect
Two faces of British youth in thrall to sinister Muslim sect -Times Online

Our followers ‘must live in peace until strong enough to wage jihad’
Our followers ‘must live in peace until strong enough to wage jihad’ -Times Online

Hardline takeover of British mosques
Hardline takeover of British mosques -Times Online

The homegrown cleric who loathes the British
The homegrown cleric who loathes the British - Times Online

Originally Posted by Chupacabra'

Your UK-bashing is sad - you are a very sad individual, racist too. You are a piece of work and a liar. The UK doesn't need idiots like you.

Pretty strong accusations there, Slick. Especially considering she's is speaking to personal experiences and backs up her statements volumes of documentation.

Excerpt from on of the above links posted by Cyanna: "A disgusting dentist used sterilised surgical instruments to clean his ears and fingernails and even urinated in a surgery sink moments before treating patients, a tribunal heard. After using the instruments, Alan Hutchinson, 51, placed them back on the tray with other surgical implements without cleaning them, the hearing was told."

After reading that, I think she's done an excellent job of restraining herself. As to your accusation of racism, you are seriously confused. Do a little research Slick. It's the muslims who are the racists there. Another quote from the link, "Hardline takeover of British mosques"

"Riyadh ul Haq, who supports armed jihad and preaches contempt for Jews, Christians and Hindus, is in line to become the spiritual leader of the Deobandi sect in Britain."

You need to get your facts straight, Chupacabra.

Originally Posted by Chupacabra'

Can we move this to the World forums so that Cyanna can get the 'frying' that she deserves for posting her vile hatred?

Why? Her comments deal directly with the questions posed by the OP. Vile Hatred? I didn't get that impression, not from her anyway. Maybe see a British doctor about your "issues".

[Livinginabox]

Firstly, let me just say that I agree with ALL of Cyanna’s replies on this subject – the UK is not a place that you should honestly consider moving, at least not without doing a LOT of research and not without spending a good deal of time over there first to figure out if the place is for you, or not.

What I would like to do is share my own experiences of living in the UK. I am British, but I have lived here in Florida for the last five years and I can honestly say that moving was literally a life-saving experience for me. The United States is not perfect by any means, nor did I expect it to be, but for the first time in my life, I am actually happy. Here, I have a wife, a good job, opportunities and a future. I can honestly say that I even feel safer (crime-wise) in Miami than I ever felt in ANY British city. The only problem I have with the US is the whole healthcare issue, but that’s really about it.

All countries have their problems, but the problems in the UK are getting worse and for decades, no one has had the balls to stand up and address those problems. One issue that made me continually miserable in the UK is that the law favors the criminal far too much (as opposed to the victim) and many (young) criminals literally get away with murder. I often check the UK news and I have seen literally dozens of stories of gangs of youths attacking (and often killing) an innocent person, just for having the guts to stand up to these brainless, degenerate thugs (or ‘yobs’ as they’re referred to back in jolly old England). In virtually every British city, town and even village, it’s the same old story – gangs of drunken, bored yobs littering the streets, harassing whoever they feel like harassing and committing dozens of petty crimes, while the police do nothing (it’s not the fault of the police, it’s just that they don’t have the power to do anything, nor do the courts). During my 27 year (miserable) existence, I was often harassed by youths and it got to the point where I simply didn’t want to go out anywhere. I lived on a council estate once and it was the most terrifying experience in my life. I had to take a cocktail of pills for anxiety and depression at one point.

The problem is that the UK is *too* liberal. Instead of cracking down on crime, they hand out pathetic ASBOs (Anti-Social Behavior Orders) and don’t throw these nasty kids in jail, which is where they belong.

Again, I’d feel far safer in ANY US city than I would in ANY UK city. Over here, you don’t see gangs of drunken youths infesting the streets. Over here, the cops (and the law in general) comes down hard on criminals and generally favors the victim, as opposed to the stupid criminal. Here in the US, you can defend your home with any forced deemed necessary if someone breaks in, without worrying that YOU will be the one who goes to jail if you so happen to hurt the poor little criminal.

Granted, there is a lot more gun crime here in the US, but it’s largely contained in parts of the city that if you’re sensible, you wouldn’t venture into anyway. The chances of being a victim of crime in the UK are far greater as crime is literally, everywhere.

Don’t get me started on the welfare issue either. This was another of my many reasons for wanting to leave the UK. There are way too many welfare scroungers over there; people who simply choose not to work, at the British taxpayers expense. I’m all for having a safety net in terms of welfare, but the norm over there is to abuse it.

Cyanna is right about the whole ‘binge drinking’ culture too and this was another reason why I was glad to leave the UK. It’s the norm over there to be drunk in public. Go to any British High Street on a Friday or Saturday (or any night actually) and you’ll witness a plethora of drunken behavior that’ll make you never want to touch a beer again. Not only is binge drinking the norm, but this is a country with probably the worst drug problem in the developed world, because you have decades of ‘way too liberal’ governments not doing enough to stamp out drugs and drug-related crime. I’m sure that many of you have seen the movie ‘Trainspotting’ – well I can tell you that more people than you’d care to imagine actually live like that, because they’re lost.

Britain is also a breeding ground for Islamic terrorists. Just look at the London bombings that happened on July 7, 2005. Those terrorists were BRITISH CITIZENS, now isn’t that scary? Britain is a country that doesn’t just accept immigrants – it actually panders to them and doesn’t encourage them to assimilate AT ALL. This is why many parts of British cities resemble bad climate version of Indian/Pakistani ghettos, with mosques popping up all over the place (many at taxpayers’ expense).

You’d think that with all those (intrusive) CCTV cameras everywhere that the streets would be safe? WRONG! The cameras have done nothing and to me, I see them as a loss of civil liberty and I don’t like the feeling of being ‘spied on’. Britain is already a surveillance society, just like many people feared that it would become.

Of course, speak up against any of the nonsense I’ve mentioned above and they’ll label you a “Conservative” or even a “racist”. Over there, you’re supposed to feel sorry for the mindless yobs that have taken over the streets, because of their poor childhoods. You’re supposed to accept Islamic migrants with open arms, despite the fact that Islamic terrorist cells are fully active in the UK. You’re supposed to put up with the dozens of unfair taxes, such as the BBC license fee, for instance.

Cyanna is right about the schools too. The education system in the UK is a joke and the UK has the highest proportion of uneducated people in Western Europe. Put it this way, I lived in a town where most of the people I spoke to couldn’t even find London on the map and many cared more about Eastenders (a popular soap opera) then they did about news or politics.

I always hated the Monarchy too, and everything that it represented (class division, hereditary peers, pompousness, etc, etc). I always thought that in a so-called democracy, you should have the right to VOTE for your head of state. I would always get annoyed by people who would defend the stupid Monarchy by saying that “they bring in tourists” – BS! Tourists would still visit the UK even if there was no Monarchy and actually, Buckingham Palace would probably be open to the public. Then again, much of Britain’s creaky old political system is outdated and in major need of overhaul, but no one cares enough to do anything about it (apathy at its best).

There is no sense of culture in the UK, even though many Americans who have never visited believe that the UK is an oasis of culture compared to the USA (which it is not). Most people’s idea of culture over there is to pop down to the dingy local boozer and drink 500 beers, then to get into a fight with a random stranger, throw up a few times, then go home and do it all again the next day.

One thing I’m not going to complain about is the weather, although it wasn’t for me. If you move to the UK, it doesn’t take a genius to work out that it’s going to rain a lot and that the winters are relatively long, dark and dreary and sometimes, you don’t even get a summer.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate the UK, but I would never live there again, unless the problems I’ve mentioned above are at least partially addressed, before they get completely out of hand. I was miserable in the UK for as long as I can remember and people there would tell me “you’re miserable here and you’ll be miserable wherever you go”. Fortunately, moving to a different country proved them wrong and I am very happy with my surroundings here. I don’t feel scared to use public transportation anymore, I go out a lot more than I used to and I have much more of a “life” here in the United States than I ever could have had in the UK. In fact, if it weren’t for my American wife helping to bring me over here, I don’t even want to think about how/where I’d be right now.

I would NOT recommend anyone living in the USA searching for a better life to move to the UK of all places. You will not enjoy the same standard of living. There are many other countries out there worth considering instead, such as Australia, New Zealand, Canada and other EU member states such as France and Germany.

Cyanna………SPOT ON. It’s good to hear someone else agreeing with me when for years, people told me that it was all in my head. Look at me now though…I am happy and honestly, I have absolutely no intention of ever setting foot on UK soil again, not even to visit.

[Livinginabox]

Originally Posted by Cyanna

Anarchy - fully agree with your last post. One of the biggest bugbears for my British husband is that too many complain to family and friends about the state the UK is in, but none are willing to speak out publicly. Crime also will continue to rise until people stop closing their curtains, locking their doors and hiding from what is happening on their own doorstep. The police are more than willing to come out and try to deal with a problem, but if the victim or complainant refuses to give a statement or appear in court the police are just wasting their time. The police can only do so much and a lack of cooperation just makes their job harder. A couple of other people on my street have security cameras but the police only knock on our door now if they want to see if anyone captured a crime on cctv/security camera. We are the only ones who will gladly cooperate!

Anna Maria - sounds tempting in Dubai, except for a few things...my daughter and granddaughter (and other grandchild on the way) don't live there, and neither do my father or siblings. I also doubt if they have any Taco Bell or Arbys restaurants in Dubai, LOL! Nope, its the good ol' US of A for me, and once I get home I plan to STAY there!

Let me ask you a question though...could it not be that those in the UK who claim their healthcare through the NHS is "fine" is due to the fact that they have never experienced health care elsewhere, like in France or the United States? Many Brits are now going to France, Germany and Austria for health care because it is considered of a much higher standard. When I first arrived in the UK I was thrilled that we would be getting FREE health care, but the quality of care has been so frightening that I would rather pay for health insurance back in the States. I've never had a bad experience in an American hospital or with an American doctor. I must admit though that an inexperienced nurse in a California hospital nearly caused the death of both myself and my son while I was in labor with him. But other than that, no problems. The doctors and nurses were so quick to react to that nurse's blunder that I suffered very little trauma from the incident. On the opposite side of the fence, the care I've had through the NHS system has left me severly traumatised, to the point where I am now seeing a therapist.

The NHS is broken beyond repair. It's a huge, bureaucratic, rabid monster, badly in need of being put out of its misery. I don't advocate Britain going down the exact same route as the US in terms of healthcare, but it could learn a lot from countries such as the Netherlands and Germany. It's not 'free' as many people like to believe.

[Livinginabox]

Originally Posted by aj661

Maybe see a British doctor about your "issues".

Good luck with that, on the NHS! He'll probably be put on a 6 month waiting list just to see a shrink.

[Anarchy]

Originally Posted by Livinginabox

The UK *needs* to be continually bashed before it can be fixed. Standing up and complaining is the only way things are ever going to change, as opposed to just burying your heads in the sand and pretending the UK is still some sort of great/powerful nation, devoid of problems and blessed with imperial might. Funny how that other guy pulled the "racist" card...so typical of what many British people do.

Great first post above (the long one) you also make sense

It does **** me off how much the racist card gets chucked about for no reason and I'm so surprised it hasn't already been used but with all the "do gooders" and how far political correctness and human rights have gotten out of control things wont get better here anytime soon.

[Livinginabox]

Originally Posted by Anarchy

Great first post above (the long one) you also make sense

It does **** me off how much the racist card gets chucked about for no reason and I'm so surprised it hasn't already been used but with all the "do gooders" and how far political correctness and human rights have gotten out of control things wont get better here anytime soon.

"do-gooders" - lol...that's a term I remember well, but I know the kind of people you're referring to...the overly left-wing, liberal, pander to everyone kind of people that give more rights to criminals, welfare scroungers and illegal aliens and take away the rights of law-abiding British citizens.

I hope it changes for the better someday, but I don't see it happening in my lifetime, hence the fact that I'm staying here in the USA, where I feel far safer and far more "protected" as a law-abiding citizen.

[Cyanna]

Originally Posted by ArizonaBear

Two quick notes here:

#1: several other Brits agreed with Cyanna essentially line for line and....

#2: like 'Hispanics' (only a minority of them in Spain/Latin America are actually Mestizo [think mostly Mexicans/Bolivians, etc]); Muslims are not a race in any manner-------try calling a Iranian Muslim either Arab or Pakistani.

ArizonaBear - Thank you for your clarifications. Some people have selective memory when reading the posts. Guess my name was the only one that "stuck" in Chupacabra's head

Originally Posted by aj661

Pretty strong accusations there, Slick. Especially considering she's is speaking to personal experiences and backs up her statements volumes of documentation.

Aj! Glad to see you back, my friend! Still looking forward to that steak dinner with you and your Mrs. when we get back

Originally Posted by Anarchy

Let me guess you are from the Uk too so quick to chuck the racist word around what a supprise but no the Uk needs muppets like you right

Spot on, Anarchy! That pretty much sums up the state of things in the UK right now, doesn't it? The old race card is doing well in shutting up a lot of people here in the UK who have been trying to tell the world about their discontent over the destruction of their own culture in favor of another's.

Originally Posted by Livinginabox

Firstly, let me just say that I agree with ALL of Cyanna’s replies on this subject – the UK is not a place that you should honestly consider moving, at least not without doing a LOT of research and not without spending a good deal of time over there first to figure out if the place is for you, or not.

Cyanna………SPOT ON. It’s good to hear someone else agreeing with me when for years, people told me that it was all in my head. Look at me now though…I am happy and honestly, I have absolutely no intention of ever setting foot on UK soil again, not even to visit.

Welcome to the fray, Livinginabox. Glad to see another voice of reason on this thread joining the debate.

No, it wasn't all in your head. My husband feared the very same thing. Before he lived in the United States he suffered depression and his arthritis was always painful. During the time we lived in Arizona he suffered no depression and his arthritis was hardly ever noticed. Once we got back to the UK his arthritis became worse and worse and the depression came back. He is sick of all the pills the dpctor has put him on. As for me, I never suffered from arthritis or depression my entire life, but now six years in the UK has changed that. I have arthritis in my hands and ankles and I am seeing a therapist for my depression now, which is due to my fear of medical and dental care, the inability to walk freely and safely on the streets, I used to be very outgoing and extroverted, but now I am like a hermit and go out only 3 or 4 times a month. I even do my grocery shopping online and have it delivered. My husband and son both comment on the negative impact living in the UK has had on my mental, physical and emotional health. So far I have resisted all efforts of the doc to put me on medication. I know what is causing my problems and pills will not sort it. The only thing that will "fix" me is getting back to the United States. I'm very pleased that you are now living a happy and safe life in the United States. We're doing our best to convince family and friends to join us in the States so they can improve their lives as well More power to you for getting the hell out of here!

[Anarchy]

Originally Posted by Livinginabox

"do-gooders" - lol...that's a term I remember well, but I know the kind of people you're referring to...the overly left-wing, liberal, pander to everyone kind of people that give more rights to criminals, welfare scroungers and illegal aliens and take away the rights of law-abiding British citizens.

I hope it changes for the better someday, but I don't see it happening in my lifetime, hence the fact that I'm staying here in the USA, where I feel far safer and far more "protected" as a law-abiding citizen.

Yep you got it LOL

The difference is that even if these problems did get fixed I still wouldn't be happy here in the UK as I have never been into the English way of life and culture its not something that has ever interested me I even prefer American sports (NFL, NHL, NBA) over the English (Soccer, Rugby, Cricket).

Glad you are happy being in the US of A another happy Brit, I know a couple of Brits that live in various places in the US and they love it too