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The western areas of Chandler nearer Ahwatukee from surveys I've seen "lean" democratic. Not the entire city.
Voter apathy is a problem here. So many people who live here are from other places, you don't have the cohesiveness here as you would in an established city of 4.5 million people on the east or west coast where there are a lot of natives.
The only way to overthrow this system here, is for progressive people to stop complaining, come together, work with the rising Latino movement here to educate people, recruit newcomers with like minds, and get some REAL progressives in office, not blue dogs, who will fight for the people.
If non Latino progressives who are sitting on the sidelines, become actively involved in helping Latinos fight the anti immigration war, and we can dramatically increase turnout of our people, we can turn this state blue. It will just take commitment. The wind is at our back now if we push hard.
And people want to see results too. Not candidates who get in office and are Republican lite.
It won't destroy third parties. Almost half of the third party candidates in Arizona elections are phony candidates anyway. They're just spoiler candidates put up by one of the major parties and are usually disavowed by the parties they claim to represent.
Arizona has one of, if not the most corrupt political systems in the country. The people who run this state are chosen by only around 10% of the people in this state. At this point I'd support deciding the elections by home-run derby.
I know a lot of Libertarians, including myself, that would emphatically disagree with your first statement. As for the latter, have you ever lived in Illinois?
Politicians here are a complete joke. Brock Landers... oops, I mean Ben Quayle is just an example. Just several years ago he was a contributor to a gossip blogsite that featured slanderous posts about random young people in Scottsdale and ASU. Yet he was still elected to office. Wil Cardon's and Jeff Flake's ads are borderline unbearable. It just seems like a race to prove who can be the most right wing and outrageous. Not to mentioned the Jeff Flake's creepy smile makes me uncomfortable and gives me the used car salesman vibe. Wil Cardon just looks unlikeable.
Democrats here come and go. In the the Tucson area, Douglas, Nogales, Yuma, Flagstaff, and northeastern Arizona there are quite a few Democrats holding political office. As others have said, the Democratic party here just seems incredibly disorganized. I am sure that people will eventually tire of the right wing loons, but for the time being we have to play with the cards that we've been dealt.
I disagree. There is a lot of voter apathy from the left in this state. There are so many Hispanic (legal, Americans) voters that are opposed to the conservative anti-Hispanic rhetoric yet they don't vote. There are many Democrats who move here from California and the upper Midwest and they don't vote. They think they are too cool and that they are Californians etc and don't get involved in local politics, they are only here temporarily fro the next 10 years. It's the conservatives who are aggressive about voting and being involved.
Arizona always get blamed for being nutty but what do you expect when the Dems and liberals are lazy. It's your own fault when you expect your hand to be held instead of taking the initiative to register to vote and actually participating in the political process.
I don't disagree with the apathy, but really? It's the Democrats fault? I know a lot of disaffected Republicans who are unhappy with their state party and don't vote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bondurant
I know a lot of Libertarians, including myself, that would emphatically disagree with your first statement. As for the latter, have you ever lived in Illinois?
I know a lot of Greens who would agree with that statement and suggest you learn who Tim Mooney is. Look up AZLP vs. Brewer. Libertarians went to court over having phony candidates running under their party label. The reason the Libertarians originally closed their primary (a policy that pretty much violates their ideology) was because people were running phony Libertarians in AZ.
At this point, Arizona is probably beating out Illinois on the corruption scale. We even have former AZSCAM prosecutors quitting because of how corrupt it has gotten.
The western areas of Chandler nearer Ahwatukee from surveys I've seen "lean" democratic. Not the entire city.
Voter apathy is a problem here. So many people who live here are from other places, you don't have the cohesiveness here as you would in an established city of 4.5 million people on the east or west coast where there are a lot of natives.
The only way to overthrow this system here, is for progressive people to stop complaining, come together, work with the rising Latino movement here to educate people, recruit newcomers with like minds, and get some REAL progressives in office, not blue dogs, who will fight for the people.
If non Latino progressives who are sitting on the sidelines, become actively involved in helping Latinos fight the anti immigration war, and we can dramatically increase turnout of our people, we can turn this state blue. It will just take commitment. The wind is at our back now if we push hard.
And people want to see results too. Not candidates who get in office and are Republican lite.
You want this? You want Arizona to become a dump like much of California.
Btw, who ever said republicans are anti-immigration.
Anti- illegal immigration is what republicans are against, and every American should be against it. Thats why its called illegal immigration.
I know a lot of Greens who would agree with that statement and suggest you learn who Tim Mooney is. Look up AZLP vs. Brewer. Libertarians went to court over having phony candidates running under their party label. The reason the Libertarians originally closed their primary (a policy that pretty much violates their ideology) was because people were running phony Libertarians in AZ.
At this point, Arizona is probably beating out Illinois on the corruption scale. We even have former AZSCAM prosecutors quitting because of how corrupt it has gotten.
Fraud candidates run in every party. It's not exclusive to Greens and Libertarians. I know all about AZLP v Brewer and the fight to get our primary closed. We just kicked another prospective candidate out in court not too long ago (some kooky lady that circulated petitions as a Democrat and then altered petitions to read "Libertarian" after she realized how hard it would be to collect enough signatures). It's part of the dirty tricks Democrats and Republicans play and sometimes it's just weirdos looking to get on the ballot. We deal with it as it comes along and fight it.
The AZLP and AZGP are still against Top Two and rightfully so. You are in favor of a system that will make things worse in the long run. All Top Two will do is officially stamp the duopoly on elections.
I spent a decade near Chicago and can tell you that Arizona still has a way to go to catch up to Illinois.
Some observations on AZ politics from a new transplant.
First, the election season here starts way early. I was here a few months back looking at apartments, and the city was already blanketed with political signs. In other states, this is often illegal actually, to be campaigning (particularly with outdoor signs) so soon before the election.
Also, the airwaves are blanketed with local politician's ads. Very unusual. In other states, I've seen a lot of the Obama vs. Romney ads, but the local election politics hasn't taken off yet, and probably won't until September or October.
Finally, every single political ad that I've seen here is for a "conservative". Not that there's anything wrong with that, I'm a Republican and a conservative myself. But every politician here is brandishing their conservative credentials, which I just found weird. Do Democrats, liberals even exist here? LOL.
Arizona was historically a moderately conservative/libertarian state, initially leaning towards the Democrats in early statehood but transformed by politicians like Barry Goldwater, along with many transplants to Phoenix and its Maricopa County suburbs, into a Republican state in the mid-20th century.
However, it was still relatively libertarian in attitude, but the modern Arizona GOP, IMO, has grown much more authoritarian and dogmatic (like many other state Republican Parties...ours in California is similar). I guess the bad economy and the increased Latino (and illegal immigrant) presence in the state is driving the more politically active people further right. Liberals do exist in Arizona, and there are plenty of Democrats, but they have little power in the state's politics.
I think a lot of people are going Independent these days.
People here need to learn to not feel afraid of large amounts of non white people. Mexican people illegal or legal don't threaten my life in any way. I'm comfortable around all types of people, and I frequent white and non white neighborhoods without fear. How many white people can say they are comfortable doing that? Big money has to be put into more education and reducing poverty in non white areas, without suburban people being angry about how their tax dollars are being spent. The more ALL races can coexist with EQUAL incomes, and division stops, the less power crooked politicians can have over our lives.
All of this anti illegal sentiment is misdirected by a political party whose wealthy business owners exploit illegal immigrants for their own gain. The Republican party is full of crooked big business people who are stealing from all of us, and blaming it on the illegals. The Democrats are afraid to put up a vicious fight. They need to stop riding the fence, and go after the Republicans. White discomfort with a growing brown population is being exploited by the Republicans.
If people knew the truth about what is really going on with politics (not what they hear on Faux News) they would stop voting for so called old fashioned values. And then "maybe" the Democratic party here would get more aggressive.
Being an Independent is a cop out.Being a libertarian IS being a liberal. Libertarians want personal freedoms and liberals want personal freedoms. If we don't have open minded liberal thinking politicians in office, none of us can be free. Conservatism isn't about freedom, it is about upholding traditional values and control of society by a select wealthy few.
When Independents vote Republican they are throwing their beliefs in liberty out the window. Conservatism isn't about liberty, it is about control.
For Libertarians to vote Republican is counter to being a free spirit. But when Democrats are "blue dogs" ,the public gets confused, and the Republican big money gets used to get people to vote against their own interests. We have one Progressive Caucus member in AZ, but one vote isn't enough to make changes happen.
People here need to learn to not feel afraid of large amounts of non white people. Mexican people illegal or legal don't threaten my life in any way. I'm comfortable around all types of people, and I frequent white and non white neighborhoods without fear. How many white people can say they are comfortable doing that? Big money has to be put into more education and reducing poverty in non white areas, without suburban people being angry about how their tax dollars are being spent. The more ALL races can coexist with EQUAL incomes, and division stops, the less power crooked politicians can have over our lives.
All of this anti illegal sentiment is misdirected by a political party whose wealthy business owners exploit illegal immigrants for their own gain. The Republican party is full of crooked big business people who are stealing from all of us, and blaming it on the illegals. The Democrats are afraid to put up a vicious fight. They need to stop riding the fence, and go after the Republicans. White discomfort with a growing brown population is being exploited by the Republicans.
If people knew the truth about what is really going on with politics (not what they hear on Faux News) they would stop voting for so called old fashioned values. And then "maybe" the Democratic party here would get more aggressive.
Being an Independent is a cop out.Being a libertarian IS being a liberal. Libertarians want personal freedoms and liberals want personal freedoms. If we don't have open minded liberal thinking politicians in office, none of us can be free. Conservatism isn't about freedom, it is about upholding traditional values and control of society by a select wealthy few.
When Independents vote Republican they are throwing their beliefs in liberty out the window. Conservatism isn't about liberty, it is about control.
For Libertarians to vote Republican is counter to being a free spirit. But when Democrats are "blue dogs" ,the public gets confused, and the Republican big money gets used to get people to vote against their own interests. We have one Progressive Caucus member in AZ, but one vote isn't enough to make changes happen.
Try living in a town thats 70% hispanic. And I don't mean, the suburban home subdivision I mean the apartments or low income housing. Probably won't be a lot of fun. Anyway The few towns I can think of that are majority hispanic in Arizona are dumps, and its just the truth.
And illegal immigration is illegal!! For every American who supports it, they should spend one day in a town thats been destroyed by illegals and they would quickly realize the mistake they are making by supporting it.
It also seems as if you think all republicans are racist. Im a proud republican and not racist at all. I grew up in a neighborhood with whites, hispanics, indians, asians, and african Americans. Skin color has no affect on me.
Being an Independent is a cop out.Being a libertarian IS being a liberal. Libertarians want personal freedoms and liberals want personal freedoms. If we don't have open minded liberal thinking politicians in office, none of us can be free. Conservatism isn't about freedom, it is about upholding traditional values and control of society by a select wealthy few.
Liberals want personal freedoms? Restricting Second Amendment rights, forcing us to buy healthcare, raiding medical marijuana facilities...
I respectfully disagree. Your beloved liberals are just as vile as your hated conservatives.
Please do not lump libertarian philosophy with your views of liberalism. Way off base.
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