01-26-2013, 12:48 PM
My father is 56 years old. In November of 2012, he began to feel intense pain in his spine and his arms and legs alternately go numb or swell with pain. His doctor and neurologist have no idea what is going on but keep running test after test. His doctor told him he could not return to work until they determine what is going on, so he began taking FMLA. Now the paid FMLA has run out and my Dad has no money whatsoever. He tried to return to work but he would have falls due to the numbness in his limbs so they asked him not to come back until he gets better. He is not better and he has still not been diagnosed, so he can't file for disability. He is in financial crisis and I want to give him advise but I don't know how any of this stuff works. The company he works for loves him so much that they are offering to fire him so he can collect unemployment. Is it financially intelligent for him to do so? If he is 56, can he retire or would that give him less money than collecting unemployment? He has a 401K plan with his company. Should he cash it all out? What is social security and does that apply? What is Medicare and does that apply? The only money he has stashed away is in his 401K plan, for a total of $17000. Please help. He has been crying all week and doesn't know what to do... he's afraid he'll make the wrong decision since he doesn't know anything about retirement, unemployment, disability, medicare, social security or even what to do with his 401K. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. I love my Dad SO MUCH and I can't bear to see him like this - he's already sick and now he's beyond stressed out... what should he do?
Thank you for helping us!
01-26-2013, 01:14 PM
Location: Sierra Vista
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Sorry your Dad is going through this. My advice is to not seek the answers you need on an internet forum, but to go directly to the agencies you mention and ask your questions of them. Be polite but firm when looking for answers so you don't get the brush off. Explain your Dad's situation in detail and see what information you get.
01-26-2013, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
jenyes523
My father is 56 years old. In November of 2012, he began to feel intense pain in his spine and his arms and legs alternately go numb or swell with pain. His doctor and neurologist have no idea what is going on but keep running test after test. His doctor told him he could not return to work until they determine what is going on, so he began taking FMLA. Now the paid FMLA has run out and my Dad has no money whatsoever. He tried to return to work but he would have falls due to the numbness in his limbs so they asked him not to come back until he gets better. He is not better and he has still not been diagnosed, so he can't file for disability. He is in financial crisis and I want to give him advise but I don't know how any of this stuff works. The company he works for loves him so much that they are offering to fire him so he can collect unemployment. Is it financially intelligent for him to do so? If he is 56, can he retire or would that give him less money than collecting unemployment? He has a 401K plan with his company. Should he cash it all out? What is social security and does that apply? What is Medicare and does that apply? The only money he has stashed away is in his 401K plan, for a total of $17000. Please help. He has been crying all week and doesn't know what to do... he's afraid he'll make the wrong decision since he doesn't know anything about retirement, unemployment, disability, medicare, social security or even what to do with his 401K. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. I love my Dad SO MUCH and I can't bear to see him like this - he's already sick and now he's beyond stressed out... what should he do?
Thank you for helping us!
I can help on some of the many issues you have. I'm very sorry to hear about your father's circumstances and wish him all the best. 401K will have a tax hit of 10% of his $17000 since he is under 59 1/2 years old. That is the standard if one withdraws 401K prior to that age. Therefore, he will be taxed for 17K but only see $15300 . However, I am not against the idea of doing it if he's completely tapped out.
Assuming he is in AZ, unemployment is a TERRIBLE idea and should avoid it at all costs. AZ has about the worst unemployment compensation in the country. Regardless of one's income, it maxes out at around $240/week which is truly not enough for 95% of the population that has bills to pay each month.
He should retain an attorney on a contingency and apply for SSDI regardless of doctor's diagnosis. Sounds like he will have to cross that bridge anyhow. They normally deny you a couple times but eventually he may get approved if he's deemed "100% disabled." Obviously that "100%" is open to interpretation by doctors and getting that is hard. Due to the abuse of fake disabilities to get a "free ride" if you will, getting SSDI is not an easy process these days for honest folks applying.
Most companies allow one to deduct a few bucks each pay period to put into long term disability which one gets starting 6 months after one stops working. It pays 60% of your income at work until one turns 65 years old. Ask him if he's contributed into that (should see on paycheck stub).
****I am not an attorney and this should not be deemed as legal advice****
Last edited by magnum0417; 01-26-2013 at 01:21 PM ..
Reason: addition
01-26-2013, 01:54 PM
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A couple things I forgot to mention. There is no Short Term Disability available so the LTD would not kick in until about 6 months after he stops working in AZ.
Question on 401K. Is he fully vested ? That is important. If not, he will be get a double whammy. If he's not fully vested, the company would be entitled to their contributions resulting in even less money after deductions. Lets say his company has contributed $4000 to his $17000 but your dad isn't fully vested. He will be on the hook for taxable income for $17000 but only see $11300 ($1700 being under 59 1/2 yrs old and company taking back its $4000).
A better idea is to try and stay employed and take out a hardship loan against his 401K. It's usually up to 60% of his vested amount (which would be $10200 if he's fully vested). This loophole AVOIDS being taxed so long as he remains gainfully employed and the loan is paid back by being deducted for x amount of dollars each paycheck. If he becomes no longer a part of his employer, the remaining amount of the loan would become taxable income. Therefore, if he can stay employed for many years somehow, the $10200 loan wouldn't be taxable income.
Last edited by magnum0417; 01-26-2013 at 01:59 PM ..
Reason: addition
01-27-2013, 11:15 AM
Location: prescott az
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Reputation: 14218
You can go on line to Arizona 211, the state's info and referral community where there is a wealth of info. Go down to the disability section and click on whatever you want to see if your Dad can get some help right now. Good luck.
01-28-2013, 10:44 AM
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I am so sorry your dad finds himself in this situation - I'd be scared out of my wits. It doesn't feel good to be older and suddenly no longer be able to get up in the morning and do the same things you could do just a short while ago. And to not know what is wrong or how long this situation might last would be very tough on me (and I am a not a sissy). All I have are some vague ideas/longshots, but here they are.
Contact your local social security office to find out if SS disability insurance (SSDI) might apply.
Look into whether Medicaid could help - that is the federal-state program for the poor and disabled (IIRC, your dad is too young for Medicare). Dig into this and see if anything applies to your dad's situation.
Medicaid Home | Medicaid.gov
About the use of his 401k - is there a human resources person at your dad's employment who can explain if there is any medical exception for the use of his 401k? Or who can answer all of his questions about it (vesting, loans, etc)? Someone there should have some answers for him.
I looked up the Arizona Bar Association web site (ABA # is 602-252-4804), and they mentioned that Pima and Maricopa counties have special programs that offer 1/2 consults with a lawyer for a fee (usually very small) - might be enough time to get a lead on resources that might help or other ideas. I was part of a similar program here in Oregon. The fee for the 1/2 hour was not much at all, and if it was helpful, I would spend more time in a situation where someone just needed some idea of where to go to get the assistance they needed. Of course I don't know if other attorneys would spend extra time, but some of us do.
State Bar of Arizona :: Looking for Legal Help?
Your bar association also had a linked website that might help - I haven't checked it out myself (on dialup here in a snowstorm), but here is the link:
AZ Law Help
Has your dad thought about getting a second opinion from a different doc, to see if someone else can take a stab at figuring out a diagnosis? Sometimes it takes a fresh set of eyes on an old issue to find the answer. If this was a possibility, I wouldn't even hesitate to try a second (or third, etc) doctor. I've done it for my pets and horses and for myself and dh, and sometimes it was what saved us. You never know, but it is always worth trying - if I don't like the answer, I usually keep asking questions and every now and then I do get more accurate answers to my problems.
Your dad is in the middle of learning to adjust to a new "normal", and has no idea if this new normal is temporary or permanent. He needs to teach himself about those things he doesn't understand, if he can - SS, medicaid/medicare, 401ks, second opinions, etc because that is his job for now. You are a great kid to be helping him work through all of this. Try to keep him involved in this process, and active both mentally and physically, if you can and in any way you can, as it is hell to suddenly not be of any use and not be able to be as active as before. Have had a recent bout of that myself with regards to health issues that have been preventing me from being as active as I used to be, and at one point had a big fat pity party for myself, so I understand the doubts and fears one goes through. There is no way around how much life can suck as we grow older and realize what it means to be old instead of young, sick instead of healthy, inactive instead of active, and wonder how the hell we can pay the bills when things like this happen. But none of us can turn the clock back, so he has to find a way forward, and a way to live with his fears without giving in to them (that is the hardest part, because the fears can be real ones when you are older). And hopefully, his health issue is treatable so that he might return to work at some point. Way too soon to give up, and figuring out if there is any help available is a good use of this time for him, if you can help him to see it that way, instead of feeling hopeless and in despair over this bad turn of events.
So call all those agencies and see what they say (including PhxBarb's suggestion of Arizona 211). Keep asking questions here at CD and anywhere else you can think of to use as a resource to get a lead on a possible solution that you would never have thought of by yourself. You will never know what is out there that may help if you quit asking whenever you get a "no" answer, so do not give up. If you get discouraged, find a way to deal with that feeling (tough, but possible), and then keep trying to move forward on this a day at a time.
And do keep on loving and supporting your dad, because in the end, this is what matters and even more so when things are falling apart for a moment. Fingers crossed that you find some help for his situation.
Last edited by sugarsugar; 01-28-2013 at 11:54 AM ..
Reason: typos, clarity, rushing to finish before dialup cuts out
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Most Common Occupations - Protective service occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Fire fighting and prevention, and other protective service workers including supervisors (%)
Most Common Occupations - Law enforcement workers including supervisors (%)
Most Common Occupations - Food preparation and serving related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Building and grounds cleaning and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Personal care and service occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and office occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Office and administrative support occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Natural resources, construction, and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Farming, fishing, and forestry occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Transportation occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)