Arizona's drought situation (Phoenix: landlord, utilities, live in)

[seattlecoming]

Originally Posted by observer53

Nice to have you stop by to criticize that place you can't stop criticizing,(repeating who knows how many of your past posts in the process) no matter how happy you must be in Seattle, a city with a lot of potential for Seasonal Affective Disorder, but with many other nice qualities.

Why thank you ever so much for allowing me to stop by.

It's not likely to reach 90 this weekend, and we will have many cooler days between now and the summer. Please don't exaggerate about the weather in a place you no longer live.

No exaggeration. I just read the weather forecasts, and some desert areas of Arizona are forecast to hit 90 degrees this weekend.

Now you can go back to being happier where you are... perhaps posting happy topics in the Seattle forum.

Which I have done, thank you.

[corydon]

You sound a lttle jealous seattle.... Why?

[tijlover]

Originally Posted by corydon

I always wonder why there was never a say 10 or 20 ft diameter pipe built from the great lakes going west, just to keep the lakes filled.

Simple explanation! The water would have to go uphill! All the way!

Some wealthy ranchers, out in West Texas, concocted a Texas Water Plan (mostly for their benefit!) back in the 60's, to pump water from the Mississippi River into Texas. That would have entailed pushing the water from 0 altitude to 3500 feet in West Texas, requiring 2 nuclear power plants to continually pump the water uphill.

Then? To push that water higher in altitude, thu Gallup, NM at 6000 feet, then to Lake Powell, and then dump it in there, (then flow into Lake Mead or AZ reservoirs) would take would take how many more nuclear power plants to do the job?

There's an extremely expensive, environmentally destructive plan on the table, (NAWAPA) resurrected, now and then, originating in British Columbia, which would permanently solve the water problems in NV, AZ, CA, and even northern Mexico, which could bring millions of more people to the SW. But that decision rests with Canada!

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by tijlover

Simple explanation! The water would have to go uphill! All the way!

Some wealthy ranchers, out in West Texas, concocted a Texas Water Plan (mostly for their benefit!) back in the 60's, to pump water from the Mississippi River into Texas. That would have entailed pushing the water from 0 altitude to 3500 feet in West Texas, requiring 2 nuclear power plants to continually pump the water uphill.

Then? To push that water higher in altitude, thu Gallup, NM at 6000 feet, then to Lake Powell, and then dump it in there, (then flow into Lake Mead or AZ reservoirs) would take would take how many more nuclear power plants to do the job?

There's an extremely expensive, environmentally destructive plan on the table, (NAWAPA) resurrected, now and then, originating in British Columbia, which would permanently solve the water problems in NV, AZ, CA, and even northern Mexico, which could bring millions of more people to the SW. But that decision rests with Canada!

If you want to do further research on this topic I would recommend looking into the massively wasteful irrigation derived agriculture on the High Plains that drains the underlying Ogallala Aquifer, fossil water that is replenished at a very slow rate. It also takes MASSIVE amounts of electricity powered by natural gas to run the center pivot irrigation systems. So, in a climate area that should only support some dryland farming and grazing you have had corn and cotton being grown through irrigation. Now, with aquifer levels rapidly falling in many places that center pivots are being rapidly turned off and many towns are being depopulated as the result of greed. The areas will function at the normal level they were supposed to based on existing resources available.
Also, I would look at Google Maps satellite imagery to examine the current locations of center pivots and how quickly they are fading. The highest concentrations are often in very close proximity to the centralized feedlots, packing plants, etc that dominate the High Plains. Animals are "force fed" grains- often the irrigated corn from nearby to fatten them up while they are grass fed at early life stages before coming to the feedlot.

The 100W latitude line is the start of the western US and the future water outlooks and negative ramifications for agriculture for the remainder of this century based on warmer overall temperatures and a drier climate looks quite bleak at best.

[R_Cowgirl]

Originally Posted by corydon

HHMMM, Designed what??? How about the golf courses, they use a staggering amount of water.... many trees and plants are not desert originals, just like the 4.000.000 folks.... industry uses water and so on.
.

Corydon - you may be interested in this article
Reclaimed Water

Like many cities, golf courses, public gardens, and other high-water-use facilities use reclaimed water. That not only doesn't use valuable drinking water, it helps keep the humidity a tad bit higher (which we all appreciate when it's hovering around 15%!!!)

[tijlover]

Anyone living in the SW, to allay their fears, or increase their fears, should read Cadillac Desert by Marc Reisner/The American West And It Disappearing Water.

We can give thanks to God the environmentalists weren't around during our dam-building days as the Hoover and Powell Dams may never have gotten built! They may have found some endangered fish in the Colorado River to halt/stop the projects.

[PoppySead]

So what should we do to speed up the PDO and get back to a wetter season? The ole' dance?

Is this about the dry season or about our futures water? They are two different topics. We as a state are working all the time to assure a water supply. I don't know what else we can do but a rain dance when it comes to mother nature.

[tijlover]

A couple of weeks ago there was an interdenominational prayer fest for rain, held in California. And? The rains came!

But this is impossible to measure, whether it was the prayers or coincidence.

But I'm sure those that participated in the prayer fest for rain took credit for it!

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by seattlecoming

Arid-zona always seems to be in a drought. That's all I heard about when I lived there, so what's new about this latest dry spell? Many people moved there specifically for the sun and the bone-dry air, so soak it up and enjoy it. Who cares if no rain or snow falls for a long time- isn't that what many of you like about the climate? Maybe some day when your man-made lakes dry up and supplies run low, some of you will finally come to your senses and realize that living in a hot, dry, sunny desert region can have some serious consequences.

Even as bitter and sarcastic as this is, I understand where you're coming from. Arizona's economy is largely based on climate ... which is rather silly because other than solar energy and lodging, there are very few industries that make money from abundant sunshine. Besides, this weather is very unusual for this time of year. February has felt more like late April or May practically all month. No rain or snow translates to no snowpack, which translates to no spring runoff, and tinder dry conditions that will definitely be a serious hazard when the fire season begins. Conditions are not looking good right now.

Originally Posted by tijlover

the environmentalists weren't around during our dam-building days as the Hoover and Powell Dams may never have gotten built! They may have found some endangered fish in the Colorado River to halt/stop the projects.

I know exactly what you mean. The environmental nuts are always trying to keep something from happening that will help matters in the long run: be it dams, power plants, refineries, logging, etc. They are very much like the NIMBYs who don't want anything destroying "their" views. I wish all of them would get in a spaceship and blast off to another planet!

Originally Posted by PoppySead

So what should we do to speed up the PDO and get back to a wetter season? The ole' dance?

Is this about the dry season or about our futures water? They are two different topics. We as a state are working all the time to assure a water supply. I don't know what else we can do but a rain dance when it comes to mother nature.

Another response from PoppySead along the lines of "what are we supposed to do?" There's nothing we can really do about the weather situation (except perhaps seed the clouds), but there are things we can do about the water situation and preventing forest fires. Unusually dry winters and our water supplies might be two different topics, but they are very much related to each other. One dry winter usually has little impact, but several dry winters in a row like what we have had lately is very much a concern. So what should we do? Well, maybe a little more conservation, a little less sun worship, and much more stringent prosecution for people who are responsible for forest fires would be a good start.

[tijlover]

Given that agriculture in California sucks up 80% of the water over there, and contributing only 2% to their economy, and we could easily import many of these agricultural products from elsewhere, there's the solution right there! The Imperial Valley Agricultural District is the biggest water user/waster of Colorado River water, so shut it down and? Take that wasted water, divide between NV, AZ & CA, and we can all have our green lawns back, if we so choose!

Yes, I know, AZ has their water-wasting agricultural areas as well!