"So-called" Freedom Bill (Mesa, Tempe: middle-class, rentals, neighborhood)

[observer53]

Originally Posted by aboveordinary

If she doesn't sign it and does nothing with it, does it automatically become law?

Yes.

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by aboveordinary

If she doesn't sign it and does nothing with it, does it automatically become law?

Yes, but that has not been her style. She has only done that once.

[LBTRS]

Caphillsea77,

Funny the CBI (whoever that is) makes no mention of the federal protections they already enjoy that protects them from the exact concern they express in this "important message".

I looked at their website and is this a "reform" congregation that caters to the LGBT community? Website doesn't say much but it does say this "warm home for people of every age and lifestyle".

Are their motivations the same as what we have been discussing in this thread and they are just using the religious angle to provide more support?

Edited to add: Just found this so Caphillsea77 that "important message" doesn't make the point you wanted it to make. From their webiste...

"Congregation Beth Israel has a gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender group named “Kulanu.” The word Kulanu is Hebrew meaning “All of Us”. Under the guidance of James “Step” Stepanski and Miguel Gonzalez, Kulanu reaches those members of our congregation who are part of the larger LGBT community.

The purpose of this group is to provide support for the family and friends of gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender Jews in our community, and to promote the inclusion of homosexual Jews and their partners into the Beth Israel community. Kulanu is committed to promoting a spiritual home and meeting place where individuals, couples, families and their supporters can come together and share in a safe and nurturing environment."

http://www.beth-israel.org/our-commu.../adults/Kulanu

[observer53]

Originally Posted by LBTRS

Funny the CBI (whoever that is) makes no mention of the federal protections they already enjoy that protects them from the exact concern they express in this "important message".

I looked at their website and is this a "reform" congregation that caters to the LGBT community? Website doesn't say much but it does say this "warm home for people of every age and lifestyle".

Are their motivations the same as what we have been discussing in this thread and they are just using the religious angle to provide more support?

Congregation Beth Israel is a Jewish synagogue that has been around for a very long time, so that's "whoever that is". Many churches/synagogues in the Valley are welcoming of all people; you call it "catering", they call it their way of living out their faith. I belong to one of those as well. Religious organizations are as entitled to express their views on this bill as any other organization or individual. I don't see anything being "used" here.

So they have this support group as part of their ministry. They are not the only religious organization that has one or supports one. They still get to have their say on this issue.

[LBTRS]

Originally Posted by observer53

Congregation Beth Israel is a Jewish synagogue that has been around for a very long time, so that's "whoever that is". Many churches/synagogues in the Valley are welcoming of all people; you call it "catering", they call it their way of living out their faith. I belong to one of those as well. Religious organizations are as entitled to express their views on this bill as any other organization or individual. I don't see anything being "used" here.

My point was that he started his post with "It's not just gays that are taking up an issue with this" which makes it sound like he was posting a message from a religious organization that wasn't affiliated with the LGBT movement when in fact this is a synagogue that supports the LGBT community. So "It's not just gays that are taking up an issue with this" isn't really accurate when posting the "important message" he posted.

Sure they have a say but for a religious organization that supports the LGBT community to use the religious angle as a scare tactic when that angle is already protected is disingenuous at best and a lie at worst.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by 43north87west

Our state "religiouslators" are just trying to ram the bible as far into law as they possibly can. Very few people see this for anything more than what it is--a blatantly discriminatory and unconstitutional law that ought to be canned before it wastes any more of taxpayers' time and money.

It's not about "religious freedom", not that anyone believed that to begin with.

I hope Brewer vetoes this damn thing for three reasons:
* It opens the door to potential discrimination, which will certainly open the door to more lawsuits.
* It gives Arizona a negative image, and the rest of the nation yet another opportunity to ridicule & boycott us ... which the state does not need!
* Most of all, we don't need any more laws, especially involving social/personal matters!

However, when it comes to religious freedom, calling this bill "unconstitutional" is incorrect. Religious freedom is very much Constitutional. The problem arises when people cite "religious freedom" as an excuse to refuse service. Businesses have the privilege of refusing services to anybody they choose ... whether it would be because of they way they are behaving, the way they dress, etc. We just don't need another law on the books about this when religious freedom is already a Constitutional right, and business owners already CAN discriminate.

[observer53]

Originally Posted by LBTRS

My point was that he started his post with "It's not just gays that are taking up an issue with this" which makes it sound like he was posting a message from a religious organization that wasn't affiliated with the LGBT movement when in fact this is a synagogue that supports the LGBT community. So "It's not just gays that are taking up an issue with this" isn't really accurate when posting the "important message" he posted.

Sure they have a say but for a religious organization that supports the LGBT community to use the religious angle as a scare tactic when that angle is already protected is disingenuous at best and a lie at worst.

I guess I don't see the "scare tactic" angle. If you are so suspicious of their message because they happen to be welcoming to the LGBT community (and are hardly hiding that, since you found it on their website), let's see what other religious organizations are heard from on this issue.

[Mike from back east]

Anyone ever heard of the Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF)? The ADF is a group of lawyers, HQ'd in AZ, funded by the usual suspects in the religious right, and chartered with a mission to inject evangelical doctrine into our public laws at the state and local level. It's a direct attack on the long-standing principal of separation of church and state; the backers of these sorts of laws are "dominionists" who seek to install an evangelical theocracy in our nation. For examples of what a theocracy is like, just look at Iran....

Look no further than this ADF bunch, along with the twenty-some front groups funded by the Koch Bros who seek to drag us back to the dark ages.

[LBTRS]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

I hope Brewer vetoes this damn thing for three reasons:
* It opens the door to potential discrimination, which will certainly open the door to more lawsuits.
* It gives Arizona a negative image, and the rest of the nation yet another opportunity to ridicule & boycott us ... which the state does not need!
* Most of all, we don't need any more laws, especially involving social/personal matters!

However, when it comes to religious freedom, calling this bill "unconstitutional" is incorrect. Religious freedom is very much Constitutional. The problem arises when people cite "religious freedom" as an excuse to refuse service. Businesses have the privilege of refusing services to anybody they choose ... whether it would be because of they way they are behaving, the way they dress, etc. We just don't need another law on the books about this when religious freedom is already a Constitutional right, and business owners already CAN discriminate.

AMEN!!! (no religious intent meant)

Couldn't have been said any better.

[observer53]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

Anyone ever heard of the Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF)? The ADF is a group of lawyers, HQ'd in AZ, funded by the usual suspects in the religious right, and chartered with a mission to inject evangelical doctrine into our public laws at the state and local level. It's a direct attack on the long-standing principal of separation of church and state; the backers of these sorts of laws are "dominionists" who seek to install an evangelical theocracy in our nation. For examples of what a theocracy is like, just look at Iran....

Look no further than this ADF bunch, along with the twenty-some front groups funded by the Koch Bros who seek to drag us back to the dark ages.

Originally Posted by LBTRS

AMEN!!! (no religious intent meant)

Couldn't have been said any better.

Agreed.