Voting soon, what do you think of Prop 300 in AZ?

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by olecapt

I follow the area pretty closely and am aware of no federal evaluation good or bad. There is a CIS study that suggests a bad outcome at the federal level...though the swing item is the education of US citizen children born of illegal alien parents.

There is a position paper by 500 leading economists including just about everybody that says immigration in total...legal and illegal...is good for the US.

There are some scholarly works that suggest illegals rescued California from a disaster do to the collapse of the manufacturing sector.

But I know of no federal report either way.

The question is complex. I doubt the answer is knowable to a certainty.

There is no doubt however that border states such as CA take a beating. I would suggest however that is more a problem with the feds keeping the good part while letting the border states eat the bad.

You must then be familiar with the extensive writings Harvard professor Dr. George Borjas? To Borjas, a Cuban immigrant and the pre-eminent scholar in the field of immigration, the truth is pretty obvious: immigrants hurt the economic prospects of the Americans they compete with. And now that the biggest contingent of immigrants are poorly educated Mexicans, they hurt poorer Americans, especially African-Americans, the most.

Borjas has a book that would make a great gift for someone who is interested in reading about immigration and the economy

It is titled: "Heaven's Door: Immigration Policy and the American Economy"

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

You must then be familiar with the extensive writings Harvard professor Dr. George Borjas? To Borjas, a Cuban immigrant and the pre-eminent scholar in the field of immigration, the truth is pretty obvious: immigrants hurt the economic prospects of the Americans they compete with. And now that the biggest contingent of immigrants are poorly educated Mexicans, they hurt poorer Americans, especially African-Americans, the most.

Borjas has a book that would make a great gift for someone who is interested in reading about immigration and the economy

It is titled: "Heaven's Door: Immigration Policy and the American Economy"

While Borjas is well respected he is certainly not mainline...but rather an interesting and well worth reading side player.

It was in fact in a critique of Borjas that I came across the interesting question of the education cost of the children of illegals or immigrants in general. The basic argument is it a cost or an investment? Borjas carries it as a cost - while many economists will consider it an investment offset by the greatly increased taxes paid by those educated.

On such issues is the good or bad of immigtration, illegal or legal, decided.

[Cactus Wren]

Originally Posted by freeopinions

For those of us not so politically astute, could you briefly explain the "neoliberal model that has failed for the most part in Latin America and Asia, and the rest of the world?"

Here's an opinon piece - by a neo-liberal.

http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/delong51

It concludes with:

Having witnessed Mexico’s slow growth over the past 15 years, we can no longer repeat the old mantra that the neo-liberal road of NAFTA and associated reforms is clearly and obviously the right one.

[Cactus Wren]

Originally Posted by olecapt

I follow the area pretty closely and am aware of no federal evaluation good or bad.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for one.
There is plenty of Senate and House testimony available - but those aren't "reports".

[Cactus Wren]

Originally Posted by olecapt

The basic argument is it a cost or an investment?

There are poor investments.
I personally think this is one.

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by Cactus Wren

There are poor investments.
I personally think this is one.

That actually is a completely different argument...you would then hold that you do not see schooling level as a causal on earnings level later? I thought that was almost universally accepted.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by olecapt

That actually is a completely different argument...you would then hold that you do not see schooling level as a causal on earnings level later? I thought that was almost universally accepted.

Sort of agree. If we must have them, then we should takes pains to educate them - they too are the future brains of our country. The problem is the dropout rate among illegals/children thereof. A 10th grade education pretty much guarantees that you will be an expense to society. The drop out rate of children of illegals runs as high as 60-70% in border states. This may be the first immigrant wave in US history that, taken as a whole, does not have a cultural appreciation for the value of education.

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Sort of agree. If we must have them, then we should takes pains to educate them - they too are the future brains of our country. The problem is the dropout rate among illegals/children thereof. A 10th grade education pretty much guarantees that you will be an expense to society. The drop out rate of children of illegals runs as high as 60-70% in border states. This may be the first immigrant wave in US history that, taken as a whole, does not have a cultural appreciation for the value of education.

I don't know a way to separate the illegals but hispanics in Nevada graduate at a rate equal to or better than blacks. I doubt very much that the illegals are particularly worse than the legals...afterall most are ex-illegals. One reason why I think we should go with instate tuition and the various benefits granted legals...if we ain't going to deport them we best educate them as far as is possible.

[Cactus Wren]

Originally Posted by olecapt

That actually is a completely different argument...you would then hold that you do not see schooling level as a causal on earnings level later? I thought that was almost universally accepted.

With a 70% drop out rate for illegals - it's a poor investment.

You may think there's no difference between graduation rates for children of illegal aliens and children of American citizens of hispanic heritage, but the statistics disprove that. Do the research.

I prefer to deport them, spend part of the money thus saved on legal students, and let taxpayers keep the rest.

Please also research cultural differences. I suggest you start with Hofstede's Dimensions of Cultural Differences.

I'm sure you have a good heart, but decisions should be based on facts, not on "feelings".