U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Arizona
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-24-2006, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 17,534,602 times
Reputation: 2170

Advertisements

Prop. 300, one of 19 ballot initiatives this year, calls for an end to taxpayer subsidies for education and child-care services for undocumented immigrants and non-citizens. Arizona students who are not Americans would have to pay out-of-state fees to attend public colleges here, if the measure passes.

What do you think?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-24-2006, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
34,030 posts, read 43,747,192 times
Reputation: 23040
I've got mixed feelings on this one. On the one hand I say they are illegal, they should pay and/or be deported. But then I consider all the transplants from the rest of the US that have been in AZ and have paid taxes for all of 6 months and send their kids to AZ universities on my nickel. Many of these foreign kids have been here most of their lives and their parents have paid taxes (sales if nothing else) that support our schools for a lot longer than the transplants. Also, we NEED college educated people in this country and this state. The kids are Americans in every way but having papers. After they graduate, they will pay far more in taxes and contribution to Arizona than their education cost - like the GI Bill grads. They are not going to go back to Saudi Arabia or somewhere like foreign students or event another state like the out-of-state students probably will. So I haven't decided yet, but leaning NO.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-24-2006, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 17,534,602 times
Reputation: 2170
When my son went to college this year we had only been in AZ two months, so length of stay isnt important he just had to have AZ ID and proof of address. Me, I dont really want to deny kids their education, but I am not sure we should pay for it. Their parents should, or become legal and pay your taxes, if we say yes to this wont we have to say yes to other programs for illegals? I dont know I am on the fence on this one. The people that support this have made some valid points, the ones against just say it isnt fair, why isnt it fair? Need more info.

But I will say yes to prop. 100 and 102

Last edited by Nea1; 10-24-2006 at 10:25 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-24-2006, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
34,030 posts, read 43,747,192 times
Reputation: 23040
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
When my son went to college this year we had only been in AZ two months, so length of stay isnt important he just had to have AZ ID and proof of address. Me, I dont really want to deny kids their education, but I am not sure we should pay for it. Their parents should, or become legal and pay your taxes, if we say yes to this wont we have to say yes to other programs for illegals? I dont know I am on the fence on this one. The people that support this have made some valid points, the ones against just say it isnt fair, why isnt it fair? Need more info.
I guess my point is that their parents did pay taxes - and not to be disrepectful, but a lot more than you did - for our Arizona schools. I've seen the kids on TV and these are not children of people who walked across last week. If their parents held jobs, they paid withholding and state income taxes. They certainly paid their 8% or so on everything they bought. I think the argument that we are paying for them is a little lame - particularly in light of what you say about being just needing an ID to get in-state tuition. Sounds like illegals are paying for transplants that just moved in last week! My issue is whether the illegal status ought to have some penalty associated with it. What is the incentive to be legal?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-24-2006, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 17,534,602 times
Reputation: 2170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
I guess my point is that their parents did pay taxes - and not to be disrepectful, but a lot more than you did - for our Arizona schools. I've seen the kids on TV and these are not children of people who walked across last week. If their parents held jobs, they paid withholding and state income taxes. They certainly paid their 8% or so on everything they bought. I think the argument that we are paying for them is a little lame - particularly in light of what you say about being just needing an ID to get in-state tuition. Sounds like illegals are paying for transplants that just moved in last week! My issue is whether the illegal status ought to have some penalty associated with it. What is the incentive to be legal?
"Ummm. where did you get that AZ taxpayers are paying my sons tuition? He was denied.I am helping him with the bill and he has a full time job as well If we can why cant they?. I just said that is what they asked him to prove he is a legal resident which we were, I dont see how the illegals pay taxes, they need Social Security number for that and I thought you had to be a citizen to get one, at least my husband did, alot are paid under the table and most send alot of money to mexico, money they do not contribute here, oh besides buying groceries and clothing. We keep giving and giving at what point do we say no more?

I found this in an article:

"Illegal aliens absolutely do not contribute more than they cost. Certainly the millions in prison and on welfare aren't contributing a dime to our economy, and the ones who are working often are paid in cash with no deductions for taxes at all. The ones who use fake social security numbers and qualify to pay taxes and social security have so many deductions for dependents that they pay little if any taxes. We have seen them pay less than $100 in taxes and get back $4,000 refunds (thanks to earned income tax credits and multiple dependents).Some bargain, eh?"

Last edited by Nea1; 10-24-2006 at 11:13 AM.. Reason: added something
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-24-2006, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 17,534,602 times
Reputation: 2170
Okay, what are some other ones that are important, I am new to AZ I have been researching some but want to get views from those that have lived here awhile, what is important here?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-24-2006, 01:17 PM
 
84 posts, read 131,015 times
Reputation: 54
Default Illegals next door

The guy who built a house in the back next door has a construction company. He has illegals staying in the house up front. How do I know? I think anyone that asks the question how do you know they are illegal are really naive.
But all I have to do is call the Mesa Police or ICE or Governor Neapolitan(soft on everything) and they wouldn't be able to get here fast enough. LOL. As far as Proposition 300 get their act together as far as legality and then discern whether or not they are eligible. You start splitting hairs on how long they worked and any other reasons to disminish their illegality and you get nowhere. Just like we are now. Going nowhere because people want to apply all sorts of reasons of time worked, how long in the Country even when illegal, and everything else to make them sound legit. NO WAY!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-24-2006, 03:06 PM
 
1,313 posts, read 6,029,284 times
Reputation: 1993
Reciprocity is an issue here. When U.S. students attend Mexican universities, do they pay the same fee schedule as Mexican nationals or is there a noncitizen fee added to the tuition costs?*

In reality, though, many ballot measures that have popular support and get passed, end up having constitutionality problems and will not stand up after judicial review. I haven't read the language of Prop 300, but is sounds like it's trying to reverse the ruling on 14th amendment protection for the children of undocumented workers that was handed down by the Supreme Court in Plyler vs. Doe, 1982. In most cases, you can't really defeat a federal SC ruling with a state ballot measure. A constitutional amendment is required.

*U.S. students frequently attend medical and dental schools in Mexico if they don't get accepted in the U.S.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-24-2006, 03:18 PM
 
84 posts, read 131,015 times
Reputation: 54
Default Own personal knowledge

My friend, for reasons I can't comprehend(cheap living) went to Mexico. She bought a little place down in one of the towns that the Mexican Government was going to demolish but they fixed it up to accommodate "other" Americans who somehow think they want to be there.
When she went to establish her permanent visa to come back here she was told for about two weeks(Minyana, Minyana). She has a trailer that when she wants to bring it across the border there is a $200 fee. Now I don't know about anyone else but I could care less about the plight of other Countries when they treat us that way.
I am tired of the attitude by so many that "turn the other cheek" is appropriate because we are America. I wish America would reciprocate with hard core attitudes and rules to protect our sovereignty like other Countries hassle America. Yes, my friend may have got what she deserved but "How about turnaround with a little fair play" from other countries for a change?
You can deny it all you want Ruelas and Montini, but very few Countries ever apopreciate our good will and it is absolutely, simply unfair to the Nth degree.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-24-2006, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 17,534,602 times
Reputation: 2170
It isnt saying they cannot attend, they just will not be able to get state grants and funding. I looked into some Universities in mexico, I couldnt find any funding help, all wanted payment upfront from Americans attending which even they say is a very small amount, as well as proof of Id and birth certificate, then you had to pass several exams.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Arizona

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top