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I also feel that as popular opinion becomes even more weighted toward Gay rights, the pressure from all sides, (societal, religious, legislative, etc) to conform to the new norm will increase tremendously.
Before long if you take a stand against the Gay lifestyle because of your religious convictions, you will be labeled a bigot, demonized as a threat to society, and laws will be passed to try to force you to line up.......
Wait a second...
Already happening.
I thought we were suppose to leave the religious aspect out of this thread. It's a dead horse, beat it on you own time. We both know were the Religious and Spiritual thread is located on here saffordpastor. :> I'll meet you there and we can chat it up.
To the OP: Congrats! Congrats! To all my friends in the gay community who have worked so hard to become equal in this free society of ours!!
Thank you for making this state better than it was before. I hope I am invited to a lot of fun weddings!
I've always said that if gays want to get married, they should be able to. Doesn't affect my life one way or the other, and really doesn't affect anybody else's for that matter. Here's my concern about this ruling: it goes against the will of the voters. Granted, there never really should have been propositions like these on the ballots stating what defines marriage and what doesn't. But hindsight is always 20/20 ... and the fact is that majority of the voters did pass the ban on same sex marriage in 2008 after defeating a similar measure in 2006 that went way too far.
For the record: I voted against the ban on same sex marriage in both '06 & '08 because I don't think the gov't has any business in marriage, and I don't care for laws that discriminate against certain groups of people. What I have a problem with is a judicial or legislative body overriding what the voters decided (even as wrong as the marriage ban was). If it was decided by the voters, then it should have been left up to the voters to overturn it.
Sometimes the voters get it wrong when it comes to constitutional rights and only the legislators and/or courts can right those wrongs.
At the end of the day, we can vote for things such as whether money should get spent on x, who should be elected into office, etc. We should not be able to vote on the rights of any person to do anything. You're right, eventually the majority might come around, but in the meantime, that's not good. We shouldn't have voting on a citizen's right, whether it be one time, or every year, until enough of the population comes around to it. Otherwise, if the tide turns in the future, then it can very well be voted out again.
Who's to say that we wouldn't have initiatives constantly coming up to be able to pay women less? To take away their right to vote? To allow slavery again? Even if these measures got voted down (which I'm sure they would) do we really want to be a country that allows voting on what people's civil rights should be? And then can change it every time the wind changes? This is why we have the system we do, to stop this kind of stuff from happening. Again, people might not agree with it, but the right thing happened.
Rights should not be something that is voted upon. They should be protected. Comparing that to the election isn't the same thing.
I thought we were suppose to leave the religious aspect out of this thread. It's a dead horse, beat it on you own time. We both know were the Religious and Spiritual thread is located on here saffordpastor. :> I'll meet you there and we can chat it up.
To the OP: Congrats! Congrats! To all my friends in the gay community who have worked so hard to become equal in this free society of ours!!
Thank you for making this state better than it was before. I hope I am invited to a lot of fun weddings!
I just wasted 20 minutes or so of my life going through this whole thread trying to find where it was said that we had to leave religion out of this conversation.....strange, couldn't find it.
What some of you do not understand is that Religion is the whole focus of the controversy.
Christians dont oppose the homosexual lifestyle because they hate Gays, or are disgusted by them or are just a bunch of bigots.
The reason they oppose it is because they believe the Bible, and believe the Bible teaches against it.
They also believe in loving your neighbor, treating folks right, charity, and just being Christian in their actions.
But being Christian does not mean they have to roll over and play dead, or accept every philosophy that comes along just because society does.
I think you will find that true Bible believing Christians will always teach, preach and stand against sin but will continue to love those who oppose them, treat them right, and be Christlike in what they do.
Jesus approach to things was to forgive sin...and then say "go and sin no more"
He didnt condone sin, but He reached out to the sinners, and publicans, and anyone who came seeking Him....and He sought those that were lost.
I believe that if you live next to a real Christian it will not matter if you are Gay, or not...they will treat you according to the Golden Rule.
They may not agree with your lifestyle but that does not make them bigots.
Let's keep this thread on t he marriage issue, and keep the business discrimination issue for another thread- thanks.
It only effects businesses owned by Christians, or churches are allowed to refuse if they want to.
Let's keep this thread on the marriage issue, and keep the business discrimination issue for another thread.
It doesn't effect anyone religious when gays get married. Unless of course religious people don't want spouses in gay marriage to get benefits, or burial rights because their God doesn't want it. Otherwise safford, what does religion have to do with it unless it's a religious business owner refusing service?
I just wasted 20 minutes or so of my life going through this whole thread trying to find where it was said that we had to leave religion out of this conversation.....strange, couldn't find it.
What some of you do not understand is that Religion is the whole focus of the controversy.
Christians dont oppose the homosexual lifestyle because they hate Gays, or are disgusted by them or are just a bunch of bigots.
The reason they oppose it is because they believe the Bible, and believe the Bible teaches against it.
They also believe in loving your neighbor, treating folks right, charity, and just being Christian in their actions.
But being Christian does not mean they have to roll over and play dead, or accept every philosophy that comes along just because society does.
I think you will find that true Bible believing Christians will always teach, preach and stand against sin but will continue to love those who oppose them, treat them right, and be Christlike in what they do.
Jesus approach to things was to forgive sin...and then say "go and sin no more"
He didnt condone sin, but He reached out to the sinners, and publicans, and anyone who came seeking Him....and He sought those that were lost.
I believe that if you live next to a real Christian it will not matter if you are Gay, or not...they will treat you according to the Golden Rule.
They may not agree with your lifestyle but that does not make them bigots.
What point are you trying to make besides raining on a parade? What does all of this you've said have to do with it?
What you've said is personal, gay marriage is no different to any other marriage in the eyes of the state, as Arizona isn't a Christian state. You and you're friends personal opinions make as much difference as a gay persons personal beliefs. Personal belief is personal, or we'd only have one church and we'd all be in it. You can try and turn this thread into a religious debate, your right, but IMO, it has nada to do with it. Nothing, and there are places on here for that you know.
The reason they oppose it is because they believe the Bible, and believe the Bible teaches against it. They also believe in loving your neighbor, treating folks right, charity, and just being Christian in their actions.
But being Christian does not mean they have to roll over and play dead, or accept every philosophy that comes along just because society does.
I think you will find that true Bible believing Christians will always teach, preach and stand against sin but will continue to love those who oppose them, treat them right, and be Christlike in what they do.
I believe that if you live next to a real Christian it will not matter if you are Gay, or not...they will treat you according to the Golden Rule.
They may not agree with your lifestyle but that does not make them bigots.
Apparently you think all Christians are of one opinion and mindset. Just as all LGBT people don't think alike, neither do all Christians. Ever heard the terms Fundamentalist and Progressive? Progressive Christians don't believe being LGBT is a sin. Yet they are also real Christians, every bit as much as fundamentalist Christians. Also, Christians don't have a corner on the market when it comes to "loving your neighbor, treating folks right, charity."
Life in AZ will continue on after this ruling. Straight people will continue to thrive, fall in love, maybe marry, maybe divorce, and will be none the worse for wear. LGBT folks will also continue to thrive, maybe marry, maybe divorce, but will finally have the opportunity to live as equal members of society. No one's harmed by this ruling, aside from pot stirrers and busybodies. If you don't accept or approve of gay marriage, then don't marry someone of the same gender.
I just wasted 20 minutes or so of my life going through this whole thread trying to find where it was said that we had to leave religion out of this conversation.....strange, couldn't find it.
What some of you do not understand is that Religion is the whole focus of the controversy.
Christians dont oppose the homosexual lifestyle because they hate Gays, or are disgusted by them or are just a bunch of bigots.
The reason they oppose it is because they believe the Bible, and believe the Bible teaches against it.
They also believe in loving your neighbor, treating folks right, charity, and just being Christian in their actions.
But being Christian does not mean they have to roll over and play dead, or accept every philosophy that comes along just because society does.
I think you will find that true Bible believing Christians will always teach, preach and stand against sin but will continue to love those who oppose them, treat them right, and be Christlike in what they do.
Jesus approach to things was to forgive sin...and then say "go and sin no more"
He didnt condone sin, but He reached out to the sinners, and publicans, and anyone who came seeking Him....and He sought those that were lost.
I believe that if you live next to a real Christian it will not matter if you are Gay, or not...they will treat you according to the Golden Rule.
They may not agree with your lifestyle but that does not make them bigots.
When those "beliefs" turn into actions that negatively impact the lives of other people, yes it does.
Simply put, if things continue to work out for the gays, there will continue to be no impact to any other group. Gay marriage has been legal in MA for over 10 years and not once has a religious organization been forced into a gay marriage. That objection continues to ring over and over and it's simply based on fear and not reality. Your fear doesn't get to control others.
No ones asking Christians to roll over or to give up their beliefs. You can believe anything you'd like. Just don't let those beliefs cross into others' lives. Basically, mind your own business.
The fact that so much energy and money has been wasted on this is truly horrible for Christianity. Imagine all the good that could have been done if the community came together on a cause that could actually result in positivity?
Quote:
Originally Posted by saffordpastor
I believe that if you live next to a real Christian it will not matter if you are Gay, or not...they will treat you according to the Golden Rule.
Other than the whole equal rights and non-discrimination thing, right? Or calling them perverts.
I just wasted 20 minutes or so of my life going through this whole thread trying to find where it was said that we had to leave religion out of this conversation.....strange, couldn't find it.
What some of you do not understand is that Religion is the whole focus of the controversy.
Christians dont oppose the homosexual lifestyle because they hate Gays, or are disgusted by them or are just a bunch of bigots.
The reason they oppose it is because they believe the Bible, and believe the Bible teaches against it.
They also believe in loving your neighbor, treating folks right, charity, and just being Christian in their actions.
But being Christian does not mean they have to roll over and play dead, or accept every philosophy that comes along just because society does.
I think you will find that true Bible believing Christians will always teach, preach and stand against sin but will continue to love those who oppose them, treat them right, and be Christlike in what they do.
Jesus approach to things was to forgive sin...and then say "go and sin no more"
He didnt condone sin, but He reached out to the sinners, and publicans, and anyone who came seeking Him....and He sought those that were lost.
I believe that if you live next to a real Christian it will not matter if you are Gay, or not...they will treat you according to the Golden Rule.
They may not agree with your lifestyle but that does not make them bigots.
There's nothing well said about using religion as justification for discrimination and meddling. On the contrary, it's about as low as one can stoop.
It's funny how people are so quick to label Arizona as a "live and let live" state yet we have these zealots trying control the lives of others at every turn.
Last edited by DetroitN8V; 10-24-2014 at 09:08 AM..
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