REAL AZ scoop (Phoenix, Tucson, Scottsdale: environment, relocation, real estate)

[Bossanovawitcha]

I'm an AZ native who has also lived in Pleasanton, Manteca, Atwater, and Irvine, CA along with Las Vegas, NV.

I'm relocating to Dallas (Plano) or Washington (Bothell), and have been trolling message boards for both cities.

Its funny, because reading the Seattle and Dallas forums there are people that simply come online to make "I HATE IT IT SUX" posts. A very small % of these are constructive. Not every city matches a person's likes/dislikes. However, the MAJORITY of these posters would probably be unhappy and bitter about EVERY place they lived. Just my thoughts.

So, I hopped over to my native metro area's forum (Phoenix), to find the same thing. I wasn't surprised to find the same "LOVE IT / HATE IT" activity.

So, if you're reading these forums as information discovery for potential relocation, take them with a grain of salt. Or an entire salt shaker - no matter which major metro area you are reading about.

Just like any big metro area, Phoenix metro has its + and -. However, your living experience depends almost wholly on where you live.

We lived in Summerlin in Las Vegas, which was nice. However, Phoenix metro's 'good' areas blow Summerlin and Vegas away simply because they are like Summerlin x10 in size.

Nothing compares to Pleasanton or Irvine CA - if you can afford million dollar housing. Just amazing weather, amenities, nearby attraction and scenery.

Phoenix is a booming area with sprawl comparable to Dallas/Ft Worth or the LA Basin. There is just so much open space to fill, so instead of building up, the trend has always been to build out. The long term affect this has on social and environmental welfare is up for debate - but new area usually means nice housing, nice restaurants and shopping, and nicer schools. Gilbert / Chandler are pretty affordable for the lifestyle you can enjoy. Yes, its a 'pizza oven' for 3-4 months. May / June / October are not bad at all. 100* dry is nothing when it cools down at night. I've been in 83* humid Atlanta weather that I found more intolerable than 100* AZ heat. For 6 months, Phoenix has arguably the best weather on the planet, if you like warm, sunny picturesque days.

What I like about Phoenix as opposed to Texas is the geography. The desert has a beauty all its own. The weather in Phoenix is much less harsh than Texas in the winter. No natural disasters, either. Arizona is an INCREDIBLY beautiful state. Desert sunsets are awe-inspiring. The Grand Canyon is priceless. The White Mountains, home to the world's largest ponderosa pine trees (Pinetop/Greer), is incredibly beautiful - especially in the summer when its 110* in Phoenix. The White Mountains area is the most underrated area in Arizona, IMO. Flagstaff, the San Francisco Peaks, Old Tucson, Prescott, Mogollon Rim are just 2-3 hours away. Vegas, San Diego, Rocky Point, Mexico, and Orange County are only 4-5 hours away by car (or $49 cheap 1 hour flights). Plus, everyone needs to see Sedona's Red Rock country and the Grand Canyon before they die. Period. Amazing and surreal.

In the summer, when its a 'pizza oven' in Phoenix, you stay inside your house, nearby mall, pool (am or pm is nice) or movie theater (restaurants and movie theaters are extremely popular). On the weekends, you can get to high country to escape the heat anyway, or head to Mexico (3-4 hrs) or San Diego (4-5 hrs). Mexico is our best kept secret - its fast becoming 'Arizona's beach' - at least that is how Sonora wants to market it to 'Zonies.

(continued)

[Bossanovawitcha]

Gilbert is a great area for buyers who are looking for good schools, low crime, good real estate value, freeways, and family friendliness. Some great 'non-traditional' restaurants have started popping up - considering all the 'chain' crap we get here in AZ, its refreshing. Old downtown Gilbert (a small, 'Old West' style 1/2 mile drag of Gilbert Road) now has four of the best and unique restaurants in the Valley - inexpensive eats, my favorites - Oregano's, Joe's BBQ, Flancer's Cafe, and Lulu's Taco Shop (for a REAL taco experience).

Old Scottsdale is very charming as well. Tempe has ASU. Hard to beat the East Valley. Lots of good areas North, and Peoria is super in the west, but the East Valley is still my preferred side of town.

Freeway traffic in Phoenix nothing like Dallas, Atlanta, or California. For the money, Gilbert/Chandler/Peoria is a safe bet as far as real estate goes - unless you can afford Biltmore, Ahwatukee, etc, which are pricier, and really nice. I'd avoid fringe cities with infrastructure issues such as Queen Creek or Surprise, unless you're looking long, long term or can't afford Gilbert/Chandler. Scottsdale is extremely upscale, but way, way, way overpriced, for middle-class budget. Old Town Scottsdale has a lot of charm and isn't outrageously priced like North Scottsdale (Resortsville, USA).

Golf in the Valley of the Sun is unbeatable. My favorite course is Dinosaur Mountain in Gold Canyon, with elevation and desert wildlife. Last time I was there, we ran across a bobcat and deer, along with the usual jackrabbits. One of the few + of the summer are the summer golf prices. You can play incredible resort courses that are $200-$300 in the winter for $20-$50.

[Bossanovawitcha]

Hope this helps people moving here, or planning on moving here. I'm a native who has lived all over the Southwest, so I'm not afraid to be honest about negatives here. Every place in the world has them. Arizona is a fine place to live. Most people from out of state that move to the right area ABSOLUTELY LOVE Arizona. There's a reason for that.

As for me, I'm off to either Washington or Texas (job transfer). I wouldn't hesitate to live in AZ again in the future. Like many, I'd LOVE to live in California, on the coast, but there is no way my little family of 5 can afford that. Someday, I hope to have a home in the Valley for the winter, and a home in the cool climes for the summers.

Moderator cut: advertising

If you're moving into Phoenix metro, pick a nice place to live, and you'll probably really enjoy living here.

[Ladywithafan]

This is soooo true......Sometimes people just get so stuck where they are, you can only take the bad stuff with a grain of salt...plus everyone has a different experience of their area...

I always tell people, if ya want to know about my area of FL, just go to baynews9.com....it's the tampa bay news station and it lists a number of community events as well as the crime...stories...

I'm thinking about relocating to AZ from FL...and will plan to take two weeks in June for a 'round Phoenix trip interview trip...kids are in Oro Valley...I loved Sedonna when I visited there and man, I probably just need a break from Florida....

[dano]

I agree with most of what the original poster says. Arizona is a lovely state and the Phoenix area is not a bad place to live to experience it. My problem is that the continued growth has started to effect quality of life. I moved from Phoenix to Las Vegas several years ago, in part, due to a deteriorating quality of life. I happen to live in Summerlin, and I disagree that places like Scottsdale and Awatukee are better just because they are bigger. On the contrary, Summerlin offers everything and arguably more, in a tighter geographic area, with commutes to central Las Vegas and the strip between 15 and 30 minutes. I used to live in Awatukee and my commute to downtown Phoenix was 40 minutes mainly due to traffic on I-10.

Phoenix has just gotten too big horizontally. I imagine my carreer will take me beyond the 3 million mark in Las Vegas but am hoping that vertical development will alleviate the problems Phoenix has. My take on Dallas is that it is very similar too Phoenix but without a beautiful state to enjoy on the weekends. I couldn't handle Seattle with all the rain and liberals.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by dano

I agree with most of what the original poster says. Arizona is a lovely state and the Phoenix area is not a bad place to live to experience it. My problem is that the continued growth has started to effect quality of life. I moved from Phoenix to Las Vegas several years ago, in part, due to a deteriorating quality of life. I happen to live in Summerlin, and I disagree that places like Scottsdale and Awatukee are better just because they are bigger. On the contrary, Summerlin offers everything and arguably more, in a tighter geographic area, with commutes to central Las Vegas and the strip between 15 and 30 minutes. I used to live in Awatukee and my commute to downtown Phoenix was 40 minutes mainly due to traffic on I-10.

Phoenix has just gotten too big horizontally. I imagine my carreer will take me beyond the 3 million mark in Las Vegas but am hoping that vertical development will alleviate the problems Phoenix has. My take on Dallas is that it is very similar too Phoenix but without a beautiful state to enjoy on the weekends. I couldn't handle Seattle with all the rain and liberals.

Phoenix is popular because it is NOT vertical. One can (could) buy a detached single family residence, the essence of the American dream, here for a reasonable price. Few dream of being a face-in-the-crowd nobody living on the 23rd floor of a high rise. The yearning for a family home was embodied in the development of LA and it is being repeated in all of the growth areas worldwide. Around here, the only way condos will sell is if SFRs get too pricey. The only way high rises would sell is if 3-story condos get too pricey. Of course it's unsustainable but, for now, let the tree-hugging city planners live packed like sardines in a can. Give me 40 acres and a mule - or 10000 sf and a pool .

[dano]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Phoenix is popular because it is NOT vertical. One can (could) buy a detached single family residence, the essence of the American dream, here for a reasonable price. Few dream of being a face-in-the-crowd nobody living on the 23rd floor of a high rise. The yearning for a family home was embodied in the development of LA and it is being repeated in all of the growth areas worldwide. Around here, the only way condos will sell is if SFRs get too pricey. The only way high rises would sell is if 3-story condos get too pricey. Of course it's unsustainable but, for now, let the tree-hugging city planners live packed like sardines in a can. Give me 40 acres and a mule - or 10000 sf and a pool .

I disagree. Phoenix is popular due to its weather, its economy, and the state it sits in. Surely you're not holding LA out as the model for proper horizontal development. My argument is that you can only go so far in population horizontally until you reach and diminshing return effect. Traffic congestion, commute times, auto pollution, etc. all begin to effect quality of life. I just got tired of sitting in bumper to bumper traffic on I-10 for nearly seven hous a week. As to high-rise condos, yep I would prefer to and currently do, reside in a detached SFR, however, a certain percentage of the population prefers living in condos and those people would be the ones helping to alleviate the horizontal spread problem.

[Nea1]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Phoenix is popular because it is NOT vertical. One can (could) buy a detached single family residence, the essence of the American dream, here for a reasonable price. Few dream of being a face-in-the-crowd nobody living on the 23rd floor of a high rise. The yearning for a family home was embodied in the development of LA and it is being repeated in all of the growth areas worldwide. Around here, the only way condos will sell is if SFRs get too pricey. The only way high rises would sell is if 3-story condos get too pricey. Of course it's unsustainable but, for now, let the tree-hugging city planners live packed like sardines in a can. Give me 40 acres and a mule - or 10000 sf and a pool .

I agree with you here. I lived in Portland Or for 32 years, I got real tired real quick "of the pack em in tight" mentality so they didnt have to grow. There all the houses are so close together you can really reach out and touch your neighbor! No one has large lots, average size is under 4000 sq.ft that they then put 3000 sq.ft houses on. Condos sell well there but at a price, and there are not alot of high rise apartments anymore. I have now a 3500sq. ft home on 9000 sq.ft lot. Couldnt get that in Oregon unless I had about 600,000.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by dano

I disagree. Phoenix is popular due to its weather, its economy, and the state it sits in. Surely you're not holding LA out as the model for proper horizontal development. My argument is that you can only go so far in population horizontally until you reach and diminshing return effect. Traffic congestion, commute times, auto pollution, etc. all begin to effect quality of life. I just got tired of sitting in bumper to bumper traffic on I-10 for nearly seven hous a week. As to high-rise condos, yep I would prefer to and currently do, reside in a detached SFR, however, a certain percentage of the population prefers living in condos and those people would be the ones helping to alleviate the horizontal spread problem.

I am not holding out LA as example of anything except the pattern on which Phoenix, Las Vegas, and many other cities are developing. But since you brought it up you might consider that LA is NOT a good example of urban sprawl and neither is Phoenix metro area. Several years ago USA today developed a "sprawl index" based on, among other things, population density within urban/rural areas. LA, as it turns out had one of the best sprawl indices in the entire US (meaning less "sprawl"). People tend to forget that 20 million people are packed in a pretty small area of S. California. The worst cities? Places like Nashville. If you don't believe it travel there in the winter when the brush is dead and and leaves are off the trees. It is nothing but home after home after home on 1, 2, 5 acre lots connecting small towns outside the city. There is nothing like that around here. Practically no 1 acre lots, much less 2, 5 and larger. We are packed more tightly than just about anywhere I have visited - six or more families per acre in some of the cheaper subdivisions. Our cities are connected, there is no area of lavish, green lawned brick homes between them. There are a lot of us but we are lucky if our little patch of paradise is greater than 5000 sf. Not much better than a condo, but we delude ourselves with it.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Nea1

I agree with you here. I lived in Portland Or for 32 years, I got real tired real quick "of the pack em in tight" mentality so they didnt have to grow. There all the houses are so close together you can really reach out and touch your neighbor! No one has large lots, average size is under 4000 sq.ft that they then put 3000 sq.ft houses on. Condos sell well there but at a price, and there are not alot of high rise apartments anymore. I have now a 3500sq. ft home on 9000 sq.ft lot. Couldnt get that in Oregon unless I had about 600,000.

I saw them like that in Seattle last winter too. I honestly wondered how they managed to pound nails in the siding the houses were so close. And they wanted 500K for them!