PSA: Changes to how you will get billed for electricity starting next summer... (sales, buying)

[MalteseJane]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

Yeah wow, that's the big difference right there. We keep our A/C at 77 (sometimes 76) during day and night, all day (since my wife works from home and I do as well about 1/2 the time). We have 2 AC units so they are cranking around the clock this time of year.

We have the a/c set at 76 during the day and 74 at night (starting at 10 pm). We don't have a pool. Water heater is gas. We are only 2 people.

[Potential_Landlord]

Looking into the near future, our city-wide grid could benefit mightily if we have many battery-backed home solar systems "intelligently" connected. This would create better redundancy and could go a long way eliminating the peak usage problem. Not that we'll be able to eliminate all power plants whatsoever, but we'll have a more reliable and cheaper power supply and grid.

[lewdog_5]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

You're talking about overage at the end of the year when they true up.

What APS is saying is that that they won't "pay" retail for the credits you accumulate in the spring anymore, they won't do a 1:1 credit anymore.

The way APS looks at it now is that they pay you full retail when you use the power that you gave to them. For example, say in the month of April your system produced 1000kWh and you only used 700kWh, so you have a credit of 300kWh stored in your account (shown as a negative number on your bills as you know). When July comes around and now your house uses 1300kWh and the system only produced 1000kWh, you normally would use up those credits that you have stored...and you get to use them as if you bought them at full retail. That's where APS sees it as paying you full retail for them, because instead of giving them the full cash amount to buy those credits, you're essentially buy thing them back from yourself for free...it's "lost revenue" to them.

What they are proposing is dropping that down to 20% of the value I believe (haven't fully studied this part of the rate case yet).

So in real world terms that means that the 300kWh of over production you had in April now would only have a value of 60kWh in June, and you would have to put the rest of it from APS.

Jesus, I hadn't seen this part yet. We stockpile solar credits through the spring so we can run our stuff in summer whenever we want. This will severely change things and that stock piling of credits won't mean anything.

What's the likelihood none of this goes through?

[kell490]

I think lot of solar owners and especially lease solar are in for an eye opener not just in AZ but all over as utility's change their rates. Paying solar customers retail for power is just another subsidy because the utility is suppose to generate low cost power for it's customers not pay someone high cost to offset someones personal piggy bank. I just think the entire solar modal is so un-fair for the tax payer and non Solar customers.

[jamies]

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

What do you have against coat burning plants?
Today of all days burning coats makes enormous sense!

Anyway, good info.

Because coal is why we have general atmospheric haze throughout the west now. We are choking on our own energy.

If or when I go solar it will be fk the grid. We will disconnect and run a generator if we need peak current.

In the Bahamas in the '80's we had solar for lights, fans and tv and two car engine generators for ac and washing machine or tools.

[AZ Manager]

Any way to estimate what this change actually means to us? We use about 24000 kw a year so I am a little concerned with seeing some of these numbers.

Side note, APS estimates a different plan would save me about 10% compared to what I am paying now but how accurate are their estimates?

[Az_Mitch]

Originally Posted by AZ Manager

Any way to estimate what this change actually means to us? We use about 24000 kw a year so I am a little concerned with seeing some of these numbers.

Side note, APS estimates a different plan would save me about 10% compared to what I am paying now but how accurate are their estimates?

I posted on page 4 of this thread where you can go to find the comparison. You have to sort through some pages because of the many different plans both in place now and in the future. The comparison has an estimate of the demand charge included since that is new.

[Potential_Landlord]

Originally Posted by kell490

I think lot of solar owners and especially lease solar are in for an eye opener not just in AZ but all over as utility's change their rates. Paying solar customers retail for power is just another subsidy because the utility is suppose to generate low cost power for it's customers not pay someone high cost to offset someones personal piggy bank. I just think the entire solar modal is so un-fair for the tax payer and non Solar customers.

I agree it's time for change. At the beginning I think it was ok to off-set higher costs when panels etc. were more expensive - to get solar off the ground. But now it's time to focus the solar industry on being competitive and deliver non-subsidized solutions. I think the technology is there.

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by kell490

I think lot of solar owners and especially lease solar are in for an eye opener not just in AZ but all over as utility's change their rates. Paying solar customers retail for power is just another subsidy because the utility is suppose to generate low cost power for it's customers not pay someone high cost to offset someones personal piggy bank. I just think the entire solar modal is so un-fair for the tax payer and non Solar customers.

Are they really paying retail, or is it semantics?

APS isn't actually paying anything for the over production stored as credits from solar owners, it just goes back to the grid. It's not like solar owners get a check or bill credit at retail. If you look at it that way, APS is essentially getting free power which they can now sell at retail price to the neighbors.

The retail part, in their argument, is that now when I need those credits back, I also get them back for "free", and I'm not paying APS for them...which is a loss of retail electricity for them...hence them saying they pay "retail" for the credits.

And this is just for net metering, using the power I give to them...which they essentially "rented". Any true overproduction that is not used by the person who backfed to the grid does actually get purchased by APS at the end of the year in the form of a bill credit. And APS pays a whopping 2.9¢ per kWh (and they charge 6.5¢ and 24.5¢ when they sell it).

So again, they aren't really paying solar customers retail for the power.

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by AZ Manager

Any way to estimate what this change actually means to us? We use about 24000 kw a year so I am a little concerned with seeing some of these numbers.

Side note, APS estimates a different plan would save me about 10% compared to what I am paying now but how accurate are their estimates?

It would be hard to really estimate without knowing what your demand has and will be. What plan are yo on with APS now?

You can also go look at your meter and see what your demand this billing cycle is and you should be able to get some rough idea of what it could mean.