Before you move to AZ, know this... (Phoenix, Sun City: houses, condos)

[Stumblina]

Originally Posted by DesertRat5455

oh, btw..what i meant by I have all the family members and such from michigan..it's because of all them that I was taught racism..and what not to be like..and how to not be racist..so don't go twisting that around too..but I can say that my family that lives there is very racist..and so are all their friends...and it's totally disgusting. We weren't raised like that out here.

How sad for you and your family, but your family certainly is NOT indicative of how the majority of Michigan residents think and feel. I have also lived in SE Mich my entire life (and still do, but a few more years than MI_mom) and I have worked in downtown Detroit for over 20 years. The STATE of Mich is NOT a racist state - the CITY of Detroit is. You'll hear the "N" word there plenty. Detroit is a sewer hole. Michigan is not. If you could erase Detroit from Mich, then Mich would almost be perfect. The only truly racist city I can think of in Mich would be Howell - it used to have a HUGE Ku Klux Klan influence. I don't know how true that is anymore. Anyway, maybe some day you'll find a place to live where you can be happy, although with your attitude, it sounds doubtful. Good luck to you!

[Mi_Mom]

Originally Posted by Stumblina

How sad for you and your family, but your family certainly is NOT indicative of how the majority of Michigan residents think and feel. I have also lived in SE Mich my entire life (and still do, but a few more years than MI_mom) and I have worked in downtown Detroit for over 20 years. The STATE of Mich is NOT a racist state - the CITY of Detroit is. You'll hear the "N" word there plenty. Detroit is a sewer hole. Michigan is not. If you could erase Detroit from Mich, then Mich would almost be perfect. The only truly racist city I can think of in Mich would be Howell - it used to have a HUGE Ku Klux Klan influence. I don't know how true that is anymore. Anyway, maybe some day you'll find a place to live where you can be happy, although with your attitude, it sounds doubtful. Good luck to you!

I grew up in Pinckney...not too far from Howell. Lived out in Chelsea before we moved here. And I totally agree with you. It's not indicative of Michigan population. In my honest opinion.

[markas214]

Originally Posted by DesertRat5455

I go to Michigan all the time..my mom is from there (Grand Rapid), so is my step-dad (Detroit), my fiance and his mother (St Joseph)..and um...yea...it's pretty racist there. .

You're a native? Not very deep Arizona roots there Junior.

[MotleyCrew]

Originally Posted by Alaskapat528

I do agree with you except for one part. The part where you said "Change happens and you can either move yourself to another state that does not want outsiders or move over." Move to another state or move over?? Sorry but that is attitude of newcomers that gets natives real upset. If I'm moving to another state I am going to check it out and I am going to move there because I like what I see and how the place is.

So why would I or anyone else then want to go and make changes. If that's the case they should never have left where they lived. We have people move here and the next thing you know they are whining about the moose. Well the moose were here well before them so get use to it or get out. Anchorage is no longer a Frontier City; they have built and built and built. Large hotels, apartment buildings; they went totally nuts with building up here. I'm about 50 miles outside of Anchorage and they have built and built out here.

Most people up here are friendly, however, when transplants come here and start whining, they are very quickly told "then go back where you came from." Do you understand my point?

I do understand your point. We did not move here to whine and I have a short fuse when people pick up and move to a new place then complain. We spent two years "checking" it out before we decided we liked AZ just the way it is.
Natives (I used to be one) must realize that change will come, regardless of their whinning and moaning over the way it used to be. Honestly, if I could turn back the clock to 1970, I would be driving up and down the coast hwy 101 with few cars in sight, only the ocean. Just do not lump all of us "newcomers" in the same basket.

[ArizonaBear]

OK: time for me to throw my 2 cents into this thread.........

The bad:

The Phx area is now overcrowded IMHO.
Tucson is at least as expensive as Phx but with significantly lower wages for at least blue collar trades.
Mohave County definitely has its share of 'oddballs'.
Yada, yada, yada......

The good:

Arizona is much less crowded than, day SoCal overall.
The weather here is decent most of the year (Low Desert winters are mild, 5,000'+ areas, pleasant summers).
Not terribly conservative, more Libertarian here.
I can go on......

All in all; with the possible exception of a few enclaves in Clark County, Nv-------I will not live in any other state than Arizona

[steve22]

Originally Posted by MotleyCrew

I get a little tired of "natives" not wanting outsiders to move here. The last time I checked the state of Arizona was a part of the United States and I sincerely do feel badly for people when their home state or town changes. Change happens and you can either move yourself to another state that does not want outsiders, or move over. I watched California go from one of the most beautiful states in the union to becoming a third world country. We were not pleased, we simply moved. Our very nation is on the verge of monumental change and I do not think we have a say in it any longer, regardless of the party you choose. The politicians will do to us what they want. So, I say to those coming to AZ for a little bit of peace, or a new start, welcome to AZ.

The type of selfish, xenophobic, "I was here first, therefore I'm entitled to live here and you're not" attitude is one you'll essentially find anywhere in the western U.S. People born and raised in this part of the country tend to cherish "their" scenery, clean air, vast wide open spaces, peace, and tranquillity; they don't tend to care for it when they see their peaceful Shangri-La's start becoming more and more like the crowded east coast and midwestern cities they so dislike. Nativism is strong in the American west; I noticed it when I lived in AZ, but probably even there it wasn't as noticeable as it is where I live now, in CO. Native-born residents of this state are quite blatantly expressive and adamant in their disdain for transplants to the state, and they'll sure let you know about it in numerous ways- from nasty bumper stickers, to nasty road signs, to downright rudeness when you talk to them and your accent doesn't sound right.

It's utter BS. The constitution of this country grants you the right to live wherever in this country you so choose; it does not, however, entitle anyone to live anywhere at the exclusion of others simply because they were there "first". You know, proclaiming yourself a "native" of anywhere in this country is actually a hypocritical and ridiculous assertion anyway, since the only "true" natives of North America are now relegated to living on reservations so that our European ancestors could move in. And I sure don't see many of us who are too eager to give that land back to them.

Also, contradictory point number two: regarding metro Phoenix, at least, the economy is about 30% comprised by the real estate and construction industries. If the place were to suddenly stop growing, and people were to stop moving there, the economy would go in the tank, jobs would disappear, and NO ONE would be very happy. The very thing "natives" rant and complain about has become essential to the continued prosperity of Phoenix, unfortunately. It's a catch-22. You may not like it, but Phoenix's viability economically, at this point, utterly depends on continued growth.

[RCL]

I don't think the problem is with growth per se, rather it's with the people in general. People have been migrating around in this country for decades, even centuries. Thinking, the first land grabs, then the dust bowl, which brought thousands of people westward to California, Arizona, Utah, Oregon, Washington. Then WWII brought another huge influx of hundreds and hundreds of thousands who came to work in the wartime economy factories or chose to settle after getting discharged. Growth and change happened, but the people had some sense of DECENCY and MORALS and they got along with each other and that is what seems to be missing today. These days, it seems that many if not most people just seem to be concerned only for themselves and couldn't give a ____ about anything or anyone else, starting of course with politicians and working its way down into the local communities. All kinds of raucous behavior and doing bad things to your neighbor seems to be made light of on TV and movies like it's the "cool" thing to do (for example, sassing your teachers, bringing guns to school, etc.) we have become gadgetized, mortgaged, everyone has become human DOINGS so that they can become human HAVINGS, instead of human beings...and this OUTRIGHT GREED and AVARICE, that's really the problem. People are not content with what they have, everyone feels ENTITLED to have MORE MORE MORE and so the concept of sharing has become foreign. As a society, we have become self-centered and have forgotten that the earth (let alone this country) belongs to each of us and we each have a responsibility to it as well as to each other...AND more importantly, to those who will inherit them after we are gone. What kind of example are we setting and what kind of legacy are we leaving?

Change and migration (the movement of people from one place to another) has really not much to do with it. It's a general, collective lack of social maturity.

[RCL]

One other thing regarding the movements and shifts of populations...in just a few short years (roughly 5-10) we will be a Peak Oil production where over 50% of the world's cheap oil will have been used up. That means that prices of crude will skyrocket because of demand (as well as the physics of getting the remaining oil is more difficult so it's more expensive to find and extract it). So if you think gas (petrol) is expensive now, just wait a few more years when it's $8, $10, $12 a gallon, or more. If you think that these suburban home prices (which are artificially inflated by today's standards) will have much value, guess again. People will start flocking back to downtown centers in droves and you'll start seeing redevelopment take place and new concepts of sharing space, much like they live centrally in Europe where they've been paying high gas/petrol prices for years already.

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by steve22

The type of selfish, xenophobic, "I was here first, therefore I'm entitled to live here and you're not" attitude is one you'll essentially find anywhere in the western U.S. People born and raised in this part of the country tend to cherish "their" scenery, clean air, vast wide open spaces, peace, and tranquillity; they don't tend to care for it when they see their peaceful Shangri-La's start becoming more and more like the crowded east coast and midwestern cities they so dislike. Nativism is strong in the American west; I noticed it when I lived in AZ, but probably even there it wasn't as noticeable as it is where I live now, in CO. Native-born residents of this state are quite blatantly expressive and adamant in their disdain for transplants to the state, and they'll sure let you know about it in numerous ways- from nasty bumper stickers, to nasty road signs, to downright rudeness when you talk to them and your accent doesn't sound right.

It's utter BS. The constitution of this country grants you the right to live wherever in this country you so choose; it does not, however, entitle anyone to live anywhere at the exclusion of others simply because they were there "first". You know, proclaiming yourself a "native" of anywhere in this country is actually a hypocritical and ridiculous assertion anyway, since the only "true" natives of North America are now relegated to living on reservations so that our European ancestors could move in. And I sure don't see many of us who are too eager to give that land back to them.

Also, contradictory point number two: regarding metro Phoenix, at least, the economy is about 30% comprised by the real estate and construction industries. If the place were to suddenly stop growing, and people were to stop moving there, the economy would go in the tank, jobs would disappear, and NO ONE would be very happy. The very thing "natives" rant and complain about has become essential to the continued prosperity of Phoenix, unfortunately. It's a catch-22. You may not like it, but Phoenix's viability economically, at this point, utterly depends on continued growth.

Funny (outside of one 'hillbilly' type of individual in Mohave County): I have never run into that xenophobic attitude that you described------if anything; I had more problems with people in the Wash DC area while still living there-----and, I am a native from that area, born and raised.

Go figure.

[Puddy4LyF]

I just thought I'd put in my 2-cents because of how egregious some of these ideas came about. There's a cut-off here between history, geography and common sense and I really don't mean to disgrace the author, but what I think she's failing to understand is that racist ideas aren't born in any specific geography. People aren't different -- no one is taught racism, but one thing that happened in the north following the civil war was the inclination toward a geographical move among African-Americans. Many northerners welcomed them, and many did not and many found the inevitable changes to be good and some bad -- it makes many northerners more racist and many northerners less racist. That's called a product of one's environment.

Phoenix (and SoCal) are very similar. There is not an influx of racism based on the movement of northerners to your area but rather an influx of a different population moving toward you. Regardless of one's opinions on our border control, it is still human nature to be cautious and irritated at your home being "invaded." How many times did you yourself mention the term, "Illegals."

I also find your posts very hostile and I'm afraid that you're likely to be very hostile at my criticism but it must be said. You remind me of the hipster-teenager who loved a band when it first came out and then got irritated when EVERYONE loved the band and they recieved radio notoriety. You're bummed but you've got to grow up.

Maybe you should consider moving to Williams, Yuca, or some other far away place to reinvent yourself.