Help Me Decide on an Arizonan City or Shoot Me in the Head! (Phoenix: estate)

[Lovehound]

I am so glad I went ahead and posted my OP, and all of you have provided some fantastically good replies!!!

Okay I've based my idea of Tuscon more on what I've read than what I've seen myself, so Tucson goes on my list of possible places, as in "Oro Valley or the Catalina Foothills." Having a Trader Joe's is great, having a less extreme climate than Phoenix is great, and a not so hot economy won't bother me personally because I'll be retired. I'll probably have a few part time businesses to occupy myself and have fun, but a slow economy won't bother me and I'll probably be selling on the Internet anyway. Tucson is a possibility for me.

Don't get the idea I don't like Phoenix. I really like it, really, but I just know that 90 or 100+ temperatures some nights will not go well with me, particularly since I like to exercise outdoors (walking carrying weights) and you can't do that in 100 weather.

Can somebody tell me if Cave Creek would be any less extreme heat wise than central Phoenix?

I really enjoyed my visit to Prescott and in fact extended my originally planned 2 day visit to 5 days. I really yearned to buy one of those houses to the north of town, west side of the valley up in the hills, but I'm pretty sure they are well over my budget. The real problem I have with Prescott is not the town itself, but that I just don't like the geographic area surrounding it. Prescott is in fact the prettiest part of that country, surrounded by less pretty country. And alas, no Trader Joe's. I'm sure Prescott's climate would sit well with me. Prescott was a "close but no cigar" for me.

Can anybody tell me if Vistancia would be any less extreme heat wise than central Phoenix?

That climate zone map is handy! I wish I could find the same for NM (an alternate destination for me). I'll look...

Ponderosa seconds Oro Valey already on my list. No thanks on Albuquerque because I've been there and my own opinion (hoping to not offend) is that Albuquerque just has no charm for me. It looks like a small city with most of the negatives I already have in Los Angeles. Actually I'm considering Santa Fe which hits a lot of the things I favor, and I may be mistaken but I suffer the belief that winter in Santa Fe wouldn't be as cold or snowy as winter in Flagstaff. Am I right or delusional?

As long as I've been frequenting forums (a long time) I'm learning something since I very recently joined CD forums. As I'm asking questions in forum ares for places I might move to, and as I'm active in the L.A. forum helping people who may want to move there with a dose of reality (there's lots of good and lots of bad about L.A. and it all depends on what you're seeking), what I've learned is that a short 1-2 sentence OP gets short replies. A detailed OP gets detailed replies. The present thread, and also one I started in NM regarding Santa Fe, have given me a huge amount of extremely useful advice and ideas! It's better for the OP to really bare his soul and explain exactly what he's looking for, and all you people are so helpful with your "feet on the ground" knowledge and advice.

Initially I was worried that my stating the negatives of various areas might get some hostile replies and I'm glad my worries were unfounded. I figured that knowing what turns me off would help everybody get into my head and give me better alternatives and it did! I'm glad that I didn't offend anybody.

I still have many leads from the above posts to track down, and more Internet researching to do, and I hope to encourage more replies and more helpful advice. Thank you all for the nice replies. It looks like I may have been taking Arizona off my list too soon. Grand Canyon state, great state!!!

[poolgirl51]

Lovehound, I wouldn't give up on Sedona so quickly. The real estate downturn has hit here as well. We moved here last year and many of the homes we looked at a year ago are still on the market and have been significantly reduced. We don't have a Trader Joes but we do have a New Frontiers (much like Whole Foods Market). The climate is great and the beauty of the place speaks for itself.

Good luck on your quest. The search is half the fun. You are doing all the right things with your research. I am sure you you land in the right place.

Take Care.

[MotleyCrew]

To answer your question on whether or not Vistancia is cooler than other parts of Phoenix, I have to say no. It is hot here and does not cool off at night. This would be the only negative we have found and the only thing we miss about living in northern Calif. When we finally retire, we are thinking Prescott. We love that town and it does cool off a little more than the valley.

[Lovehound]

Thanks Poolgirl and maybe I will visit Sedona again. Even if I don't end up relocating there it would be fun to visit.

Thanks Motley, but I have to face reality that 90-100 or hotter nights are too hot for me. Actually that's the biggest negative about the Phoenix area in my opinion, all the other negatives being no big deal. And certainly there's a lot of positives to the Phoenix, and me being a desert lover the scenery is a great attraction for me!

Keep them cards and letters comin' in friends!

[Gretchen B]

Originally Posted by Lovehound

Can somebody tell me if Cave Creek would be any less extreme heat wise than central Phoenix?

I really enjoyed my visit to Prescott and in fact extended my originally planned 2 day visit to 5 days. I really yearned to buy one of those houses to the north of town, west side of the valley up in the hills, but I'm pretty sure they are well over my budget. The real problem I have with Prescott is not the town itself, but that I just don't like the geographic area surrounding it. Prescott is in fact the prettiest part of that country, surrounded by less pretty country. And alas, no Trader Joe's. I'm sure Prescott's climate would sit well with me. Prescott was a "close but no cigar" for me.

. . .


Actually I'm considering Santa Fe which hits a lot of the things I favor, and I may be mistaken but I suffer the belief that winter in Santa Fe wouldn't be as cold or snowy as winter in Flagstaff. Am I right or delusional?

Guess what! They've already broken ground on our new Trader Joes in Prescott (part of the new Sam's Club "Crossings" shopping center). So at least one of your problems with Prescott would be solved. Sorry I can't help you out on changing the grassland valleys and high desert to beautiful mountain scenery.

Cave Creek will be a few (as in probably not more than 5) degrees cooler than Phoenix. Really pretty area, I think. Have you looked into Fountain Hills, too?

I'm not really sure, but I think Santa Fe's climate is very similar to Prescott's. Probably a little colder/snowier in winter, but I don't think it's nearly as much so as Flagstaff.

Have you checked out Sand Point, ID or towns in the general Salt Lake City area?

I also second the votes for the Tucson area. I personally find that Tucson's smaller size and the history and character of the area make it more appealing than the Phoenix metro area.

[AzDreamer]

The "Western Garden Book" by Sunset has detailed climate zone maps for all the Western US states. Your library should have a copy. New Mexico does not have any low desert climate zones.

[kdog]

Originally Posted by Lovehound

Kingman: Truck stop, too small, too hot (summer) probably too cold (winter).

Have you actually visited Kingman, or just stopped there to get gas? My wife and I are both engineers, here for work, but we're having so much fun, we plan on staying here after we retire.

We're homebodies, so we don't need outside entertainment. Good thing, because there's not a lot of that here. There are a few good restaurants in town, and a couple of good coffee shops (even a Starbucks). My wife's a big fan of Trader Joes. She hits the one in Henderson, 90 miles away, when she drives to the airport in Vegas. She'll load her trunk, and pack it in the big freezer we have in the garage. That works, you just have to plan ahead.

On the plus side, Kingman is at the crossroads of everywhere, and yet there's no traffic here (save for the roads around the freeway exits, which can be easily gotten around). The air is clean, and the cost of living is very low. I think the scenery here is great. We have a 360 degree panorama of mountains. Hualapai Mountain Park is an excellent place to hike with long trails, and there are a few 8,000 peaks (we just climbed a couple over the weekend). Average summer temperature in the park is 86 degrees. We go there quite often. I think Kingman is an ideal launching pad for road trips, which it sounds like you like to do.

Temperature wise, I doubt that Kingman is both hotter and colder than other places. Since AZ doesn't have the ocean to moderate temperatures, it's climate is pretty much driven by altitude. Kingman is at 3500', and so should have the same climate as anywhere else at that elevation. It really doesn't get too hot here, always cools off at night, but it does get down to freezing occasionally during the winter.

Anyway, that's my plug for Kingman. It's really great for us "homies", but might not be that great if you need outside sources of entertainment, other than a few redneck bars. Although, there is Laughlin, 30 minutes up the road.

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by Lovehound

Thanks Poolgirl and maybe I will visit Sedona again. Even if I don't end up relocating there it would be fun to visit.

Thanks Motley, but I have to face reality that 90-100 or hotter nights are too hot for me. Actually that's the biggest negative about the Phoenix area in my opinion, all the other negatives being no big deal. And certainly there's a lot of positives to the Phoenix, and me being a desert lover the scenery is a great attraction for me!

Keep them cards and letters comin' in friends!

Lovehound, I've been following your other posts, including your post about Santa Fe on the New Mexico forum, and honestly, I don't think the nighttime heat is your only negative about Phoenix. On the New Mexico forum, you stated you are looking for a house that provides significant views-- unless if you have at least a million to spend on a home, chances are your home in Phoenix will have no view other than the backyard fence and your neighbor's house. In fact, I don't even see the point of retiring from the San Fernando Valley in LA just to move to Phoenix (even if we're talking Peoria, Peoria basically IS Phoenix); you'd be going from one gridded-out, wall to wall, stressed-out metro area to another one. Unless if you're going to be living in one of the Sun Cities for the "active adult" lifestyle, I don't see the point in retiring in Phoenix, when you already live in the San Fernando Valley.

To be honest, other than a couple of master planned communities on the extreme edge of town, you don't really see much desert scenery at all in Phoenix; Phoenix is in a paper flat valley. You know what-- I think Tucson is still your best choice within Arizona, but if you're able to afford living in Santa Fe and if you don't mind some winter (they do get snow and pretty cold in the dead of winter, you know-- but it's an EXTREMELY beautiful winter over there), I would go with Santa Fe. Santa Fe is the KING KONG of the southwest! Believe it or not, Santa Fe has almost the identical average temperature ranges as Denver pretty much year round, but it has way less snow (although still plenty, especially since you're coming from the land of no snow, it will seem like a lot to you), more sunshine, and less wacky weather than Denver.

[Lovehound]

Originally Posted by kdog

Have you actually visited Kingman, or just stopped there to get gas?

Mmmmmmmmmmm... Guilty!!! Gas stops and what I've read online. However one of my best friends (also my age) is giving serious thought to retiring in Kingman. I'm pretty sure I'll get a crash course in Kingman in the not too distant future. Actually I think the climate would be okay. It's the small town size that worries me. Yeah I know you got the big box stores. Stay tuned, I'm marking Kingman on my list as "take another look" (or maybe "take a first look" in your words).

VP, well yeah, nighttime heat is my biggest negative about Phoenix, and none of the rest are deal breakers. And I hear what you're saying about being "gridded out."

For sure I'm going to take a closer look at Tucson, because of your advice and a few others. Santa Fe is high on my list, in fact the only one on my list before I started this current discussion. I've added Tucson and I can't say which order until I've been back to both towns. Tucson has appeal because it isn't as hot as Phoenix, but warmer than Santa Fe which may be a bit cold for my tastes.

So tell me. Santa Fe has the best food I've ever had "New Mexican." Does Tucson compare? I'm an amateur chef and I want to learn the "New Mexican" style, plus I enjoy restaurants, particularly if I can get cooking ideas. How's the eats in Tucson?

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by Lovehound

So tell me. Santa Fe has the best food I've ever had "New Mexican." Does Tucson compare? I'm an amateur chef and I want to learn the "New Mexican" style, plus I enjoy restaurants, particularly if I can get cooking ideas. How's the eats in Tucson?

The best Mexican food I've ever had in my life is a place called the "Blue Corn Cafe" in Santa Fe, just about a block west of the Plaza on San Francisco St. Okay, it's really a "gringo-Mex" kind of place, but it's the best gringo-Mex I've ever had. After you eat there, no other Mexican food will take good anymore. New Mexican food is its own thing. There are places in Santa Fe that have it, but some of the most "authentic" New Mexican places are in hole in the wall towns in rural New Mexico. Their signature dish is called "chile" which has nothing to do with tex-mex "Chili" (with an 'i'). Chile is a light stew made with pork and (you guessed it) chile peppers, that they put on just about everything. It comes in two varieties-- red or green (the New Mexico state question). Generally, New Mexican food is extremely spicy. It's also pretty bad for you-- they add on fried eggs on top of everything. Extremely tasty though. Tucson Mexican food is just like Phoenix-- your typical Sonoran/border food. A place in Tucson called "El Charro Cafe" claims they invented the chimichanga. I've eaten there before, it's pretty good.

I personally think Tucson has a lot of local character. It's the kind of place that grows on you. A lot of people whizz past Tucson on I-10 and assume there's nothing there-- well I-10 doesn't really go through the main part of town-- so have to get off the highway and explore. I think Tucson has a much higher degree of "local color" and sense of place than Phoenix. I would also give Albuquerque, and its suburb Rio Rancho, a second look. Have you really explored the town or do you just think you don't like it? And then one other city to give consideration is Las Cruces, NM.