What is Flagstaff like?

[Spoonman]

I LOVE FLAGSTAFF! (Shouted from the balcony of the Weatherford Hotel, the summit of Humphrey's Peak, and while running along the FUTS).

Sure, it costs more and its hard to find a goof paying job but what you get in return is a fulfilling mix of the great outdoors, great food and music, interesting people, fresh air, and four beautiful seasons.

[Flagged Out]

We have lived here since 1958 are are moving to Nevada because of high cost of living and low wages, not to mention constant train horns blasting through the town, precluding being able to open our windows at night in the summer. You can have Flagstaff. It sucks.

[observer53]

Originally Posted by Flagged Out

We have lived here since 1958 are are moving to Nevada because of high cost of living and low wages, not to mention constant train horns blasting through the town, precluding being able to open our windows at night in the summer. You can have Flagstaff. It sucks.

You've been there over FIFTY years and now you say "it sucks" ??? (one of my least favorite phrases in the English language, but that's another topic). Were the wages EVER high there relative to other cities in AZ? The cost of living? The train tracks have ALWAYS been there. I don't get why it took you so long to decide you didn't like it, based on what you describe as your objections.

[BillR1]

Originally Posted by observer53

You've been there over FIFTY years and now you say "it sucks" ??? (one of my least favorite phrases in the English language, but that's another topic). Were the wages EVER high there relative to other cities in AZ? The cost of living? The train tracks have ALWAYS been there. I don't get why it took you so long to decide you didn't like it, based on what you describe as your objections.

The trains are far more frequent than they were even 10 years ago. I've lived here that long, and have seen the increase firsthand.
The wages have always been low here, but the cost of living is going up MUCH faster than the wages are. For instance, we have some of the highest gasoline prices in the state.
I hear every day of long-time residents finally getting their fill of this pathetic hippie commune and headed to someplace more "conservative" and family-friendly. If the housing market hadn't crashed so hard, I'd have left this place years ago. My adult kids have told me they will NOT raise families here, as they've experienced the local school system.
To anyone thinking of moving here...DO YOUR RESEARCH!

[mrspeedyt]

I like flagstaff... lived there 1975-1996, moved away only because my job moved... I would consider moving back but can't afford it now...besides- I like the house in kingman.

[Tom Lane]

Originally Posted by BillR1

I hear every day of long-time residents finally getting their fill of this pathetic hippie commune and headed to someplace more "conservative" and family-friendly.

That's an interesting perspective. In my opinion, I wouldn't call Flagstaff a hippie commune. It's ULTRA-FAR-RIGHT-CONSERVATIVE and not progressive enough to someone like me from Seattle. Likewise with Santa Fe, NM which is very conservative from my point of view, as is Albuquerque, Tucson, and Prescott. I don't know of anywhere in the Southwest that is far left liberal except perhaps Palm Springs and Boulder. I'm not sure about Sedona. One would have to study the history of the various individuals who founded the Southwest to understand why the area is ultra-Conservative.

[pokuku]

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

That's an interesting perspective. In my opinion, I wouldn't call Flagstaff a hippie commune. It's ULTRA-FAR-RIGHT-CONSERVATIVE and not progressive enough to someone like me from Seattle. Likewise with Santa Fe, NM which is very conservative from my point of view, as is Albuquerque, Tucson, and Prescott. I don't know of anywhere in the Southwest that is far left liberal except perhaps Palm Springs and Boulder. I'm not sure about Sedona. One would have to study the history of the various individuals who founded the Southwest to understand why the area is ultra-Conservative.

Sorry Tom, I completely disagree. You're throwing in conservativism with regressive mindsets. Flagstaff isn't "conservative" in any sense, except maybe the "Boss Hog" "little town in kentucky that never wants to grow and runs outsiders out of town so they can't do business there" kind of conservative. Modern conservatives are laissez-faire, pro-business, and you would be hard pressed to find people of that type here.

On the other hand, its not really a "hippie commune" either. Again, it seems too regressive to even commit to something like that. It seems too regressive to commit to ANY change.

[BillR1]

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

That's an interesting perspective. In my opinion, I wouldn't call Flagstaff a hippie commune. It's ULTRA-FAR-RIGHT-CONSERVATIVE and not progressive enough to someone like me from Seattle. Likewise with Santa Fe, NM which is very conservative from my point of view, as is Albuquerque, Tucson, and Prescott. I don't know of anywhere in the Southwest that is far left liberal except perhaps Palm Springs and Boulder. I'm not sure about Sedona. One would have to study the history of the various individuals who founded the Southwest to understand why the area is ultra-Conservative.

Tom, all you need to do is look at the voting of Coconino County. It consistantly votes democrat, unlike the rest of the state. Conservative? Not hardly! Take a stoll downtown any day of the week and see the 1960s types with their beads, dreadlocks, obama bumper stickers and anti-war t-shirts. It's VERY much a hippie community.

Originally Posted by pokuku

Flagstaff isn't "conservative" in any sense, except maybe the "Boss Hog" "little town in kentucky that never wants to grow and runs outsiders out of town so they can't do business there" kind of conservative. Modern conservatives are laissez-faire, pro-business, and you would be hard pressed to find people of that type here.

I agree completely!

[Tom Lane]

Originally Posted by BillR1

Tom, all you need to do is look at the voting of Coconino County. It consistantly votes democrat, unlike the rest of the state. Conservative? Not hardly! Take a stoll downtown any day of the week and see the 1960s types with their beads, dreadlocks, obama bumper stickers and anti-war t-shirts. It's VERY much a hippie community.

Bill as always of course I agree w/ you that there is some element of the left represented in Flagstaff... However, in my opinion, it's not nearly as liberal as places such as Sedona, Boulder, Santa Cruz, Portland, and Seattle . . .

Flagstaff is definitely conservative, given recent instances such as the City Council resfusing to pass a gay rights ordinance this spring. Interesting that most of the locals describe the town as conservative, and despise the new liberal newcomers from California. I think that Flag is only liberal in the 1st place because of the University's influence, just as Sedona is liberal because of the concentration of artists and metaphysical types. I think that's why it votes Democratic (narrowly), because of the University (just as Tucson votes Democratic).

I think what is lacking in Flagstaff is a sense of community. Newcomers and students are just not welcomed by the locals. In fact the students are taken advantage of, with landlords renting places for $1000 a month. Compare that to $600 in Sedona! The unwelcoming nature is a common problem in many SMALL (emphasis added) college towns. Places like Flagstaff dislike transients to the extent that the city passed an anti-camping ordinance that was recently amended.

Question: Is Sedona is a more cohesive and welcoming community, since most people are transplants who moved there share a COMMON GOAL in pursuing their artistic and metaphysical pursuits ?

Originally Posted by pokuku

Sorry Tom, I completely disagree. You're throwing in conservativism with regressive mindsets. Flagstaff isn't "conservative" in any sense, except maybe the "Boss Hog" "little town in kentucky that never wants to grow and runs outsiders out of town so they can't do business there" kind of conservative. Modern conservatives are laissez-faire, pro-business, and you would be hard pressed to find people of that type here.

On the other hand, its not really a "hippie commune" either. Again, it seems too regressive to even commit to something like that. It seems too regressive to commit to ANY change.

Regressive - you are correct, that's the right word to describe Flagstaff . . . !

What types of changes are you referring to ?

It seems that the town doesn't care that so much of its tax revenue goes to the Superwallmart in Winslow, and various other stores in Phoenix and Prescott. Northern Arizona and particularly Flagstaff could rake in the taxes and double their bike trail system in 5 years if big box stores were built. Other competing mountain towns such as Durango realize this, and Durango built a Superwallmart paying for thier new Recreation Center downtown.

Now on the other hand I think Sedona should retain its restrictions, as it's an Internationally renowned art community committed to natural beauty and tourism. Flagstaff is a college town with high tech industry and young families, and the horrible cost of living does not justify so many roadblocks to new homes and businesses. It is an embarassment to the town that Flagstaff's nicknames include "Poverty with a View," and "Ghetto in the Meadow."

One can even do much better in twin city Santa Fe, NM where the minimum wage is $10 / hour and a casita can be rented for as low as $600.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

Flagstaff is definitely conservative, given recent instances such as the City Council resfusing to pass a gay rights ordinance this spring.

Good. The council voted in line with their consitutents wishes.

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

Newcomers and students are just not welcomed by the locals. In fact the students are taken advantage of, with landlords renting places for $1000 a month. Compare that to $600 in Sedona! The unwelcoming nature is a common problem in many SMALL (emphasis added) college towns. Places like Flagstaff dislike transients to the extent that the city passed an anti-camping ordinance that was recently amended.

Supply and demand dictate rents. If a landlord can get $1,000 @ month - they should go for it. It is a business, not a hobby.

As for the transients - I know of no community that LIKES transients. Flagstaff is doing their job - trying to discourage transients - Kudo's to the City on this one.

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

It seems that the town doesn't care that so much of its tax revenue goes to the Superwallmart in Winslow, and various other stores in Phoenix and Prescott. Northern Arizona and particularly Flagstaff could rake in the taxes and double their bike trail system in 5 years if big box stores were built. Other competing mountain towns such as Durango realize this, and Durango built a Superwallmart paying for thier new Recreation Center downtown.

Not everyone likes the big box stores - nor should they. Nor does every market support a big box type of store. If it is not profitable - it won't be, nor should be, built.