Sedona...a place to avoid (Flagstaff: price, shop, to move)

[eastcoastlady]

So I suppose no one should be allowed to visit Sedona other than you? That's just stupid. If a place is beautiful like that, people will want to see it and they should. What a horrible world it would be if we all had to stay at home to avoid disturbing nature for people like you.

[rich67]

Originally Posted by poolgirl51

So, you make some very good points. You are skilled at pointing out what is wrong. Now what would your solution be?

In his eyes, there is no true solution. Once progress has started, it is difficult if not impossible to reverse. Therefore, the people who have "tainted" Sedona have already done their damage, and now the droves of endless tourists who continue to frequent the town will further add to its demise. There really is no true solution. Just seek out a different location and try to enjoy that until it also becomes popular and commercialized.
In a way, I understand what he is saying, but I think it's a very one-sided and selfish argument. It is a shame when a pristine area of nature is overrun by man-made conveniences and turned into a tourist attraction. But, it can still be enjoyable as long as you take on a different attitude and way of thinking.
When I lived in California, I used to go to Mammoth Lakes and Yosemite all the time when I was younger. Quickly, Yosemite Valley became very commercialized and PACKED with people. Mammoth Lakes was the same way. Instead of becoming bitter and angry about it, I changed my travel plans around to avoid the times when it was crowded, stayed in different areas of the park, and ventured further off the beaten path than the typical visitors did. There I found some solace in the undisturbed nature I found there.
Anyone can go to Sedona, drive around and visit the popular areas, but if you really love the area and want to experience all it has to offer, look beyond the simple easy hikes and non-challenging mountain bike paths, and try something different and you may be pleasantly surprised. In other words, instead of griping about it, work for your enjoyment!
It's like Lake Powell...many people hate the lake, hate the dam, and hate the fact a manmade object created a lake where none should be. When I went out there, I fell in love with everything it had to offer. I fell in love with the small town feel of Page, and fell in love with the secluded areas of the lake where we didn't see people all day long. But we took the time to truly explore every crevice and hiked far off the path to find the areas that offered us a truly special experience.
So, I got long-winded, but that's the idea. Anyone can hop in a car or lace up some hiking boots and take the road traveled by others and get pi**ed when they see other people and evidence of other people. But the true adventurists seek out different areas and appreciate the area as a whole for ALL it offers, not just one facet of it. Make your own adventures...don't expect "Arizona.com" to do it for you.

[motuorg]

Originally Posted by eastcoastlady

So I suppose no one should be allowed to visit Sedona other than you? That's just stupid. If a place is beautiful like that, people will want to see it and they should. What a horrible world it would be if we all had to stay at home to avoid disturbing nature for people like you.

It can't be helped I'm afraid. That's the point isn't it. Everyone wants to do what you want to do..so nature does get disturbed. THey come from the East coast, they come from the West coast. I'm not saying we should "stay at home", but hey, 4 million visitors a year, pink jeeps, summer homes, celebrity sightings, resorts, etc, etc, You said "If a place is beautiful like that, people will want to see it and they should.", I can't argue with you, but like I said. Paradoxically the beauty of Sedona will be its demise. You also said "So I suppose no one should be allowed to visit Sedona other than you? That's just stupid." Yes that would be stupid m'am, that's why I did point out that the my last visit to Sedona, will be my last, lest I be a hypocrite.

[xwideopenskyx]

[quote=SedonaShadow;5161270] If it weren't for my friends I would never have to view the uglification of Sedona. /quote]

Well, I've heard it all now.....LOL.....uglification of Sedona is a classic oxymoron! There is nothing ugly about Sedona naturewise or man made. If you want to see ugly, you'll just have to go to places like Detroit, Cleveland etc. and for a shorter trip there is plenty of rundown and trashy places in AZ.

I'll just stop here and won't give you too much of a hard time since you're 70 + years old, right? Got to try and respect my elders even if their comments are way out in the left field.

[xwideopenskyx]

Originally Posted by motuorg

Nothing wrong with feeling anger.. Anger is sometimes expressed out of frustration over things we love, If it not for that sentiment amongst people (like Sedona Shadow) who peceive overdevelopment and shortsightedness as a problem, you could (I'm sure) in a few years, kiss your Sedona good-Bye. I get angry at my children too...no need to look elsewhere.

Anger is a selfish and unproductive emotion usually originating from unrealistic expectations and produces an outcome that is completely opposite of what you desire.

Out of all the places in US, Sedona does not deserve to have a thread on the AZ forum stating "a place to avoid".

In your original post you describe your love/hate feelings towards Sedona and how the town planners should be shot. On page 7 you mention that you practice Buddhist meditation. What is wrong with this picture?
How can anyone take your seriously?

Like it or not, tourism and growth is a huge part of the AZ economy to which you have also contributed your money. Now that you're no longer able to enjoy Sedona the way you once did, you resent others for exactly the same reason.

Sedona and most of the cities and towns in AZ have experienced major growth and growing pains along with it. I'll take that set of challenges over dying and decaying cities of the rustbelt anyday!

[rich67]

There are Vortexes there alright, they suck in all the New Age idiots from California. Sedona has become New Age heaven. Vortexes!!! what a load of crap.

Oh yeah...the town planners should be shot. And if they are dead already, they should be exhumed and shot.

I'm sorry about the 'Should be shot' thing and the 'california' thing. I wanted to take it out but you can only edit a few times...it won't let me do it..sorry to all you Californians..truly...it was a comment made in ignorance. After all I'm a rude, vile New Yorker.
if California is so beautiful why would you leave it to go to Sedona anyway?

Yes...my point exactly about not going again...I want to be part of the solution not part of the problem.

soooo....you are going to lock yourself in your home, never go anywhere or see anything, and get mad at people who DO go for fear of commercialization? Have fun with that.

After having done formal meditation for many years, in the Buddhist/Zen tradition (oh yeah... here on the east coast we DO have access to that sort of thing)

Pompous. All your threads ring of it.

I teach astronomy and have seen it happening all over the southwest

Martial arts is a good example. I am trained by a master, the techniques are hundreds of years old, selflessness and humility are encouraged.

On top of that, you still belittle and judge people. Fantastic.

Taos and Santa Fe are other towns that have gone down the road to "shamway', look for Moab next.

Originally Posted by eastcoastlady
I can't wait to move to AZ; I will definitely be hiking in the Sedona area frequently. .

The sentiment of 4 million others every year, and this of course is the problem. Paradoxically, Sedona's beauty will be its own demise....Red Rock Papparazzi.

Paradoxically the beauty of Sedona will be its demise. You also said "So I suppose no one should be allowed to visit Sedona other than you? That's just stupid." Yes that would be stupid m'am, that's why I did point out that the my last visit to Sedona, will be my last, lest I be a hypocrite.

Just...wow. Again, your ego simply bursts through every post you type. I have been following your posts because you have got to be the most "full of myself" person I have yet read posting on any forum. A good old-fashioned debate is one thing. But debating on an internet forum with a bull-headed individual who refuses to do anything but push his anger and not offer anything productive to resolving a situation is no debate... it's a one-sided argument! Not in 10 pages of posts did you say anything remotely intelligent that would let people understand how you think the situation in Sedona could be bettered. Instead, you choose to resort to wanting to shoot people then apologizing for your outbursts and pass judgement on others. Out of all your articulate doubletalk, I can only arrive at this conclusion: your solution to keep nature areas pristine is to NOT GO! If that's the case, enjoy sitting at home in your La-Z-Boy while the rest of us enjoy all life has to offer and all this planet has to offer. As articulate as you are, it's a shame your thinking is so one-dimensional. I guess when you have lived your life in that manner, it's hard to snap out of it. Angry and pessimistic is no way to go through life. It'll make for a very short and miserable one.

[motuorg]

[quote=xwideopenskyx;5173384]

Originally Posted by SedonaShadow

If it weren't for my friends I would never have to view the uglification of Sedona. /quote]

Well, I've heard it all now.....LOL.....uglification of Sedona is a classic oxymoron! There is nothing ugly about Sedona naturewise or man made. If you want to see ugly, you'll just have to go to places like Detroit, Cleveland etc. and for a shorter trip there is plenty of rundown and trashy places in AZ.

I'll just stop here and won't give you too much of a hard time since you're 70 + years old, right? Got to try and respect my elders even if their comments are way out in the left field.

Can you be that slow? Places like Cleveland, Detroit were once beautiful....how do you suppose they became what they became? That's the point of the the whole thread isn't it. Places BECOME trashy don't they? They don't start out that way. I'll just stop here and won't give you too much of a hard time since you sound very young, quite naive, and lack life experience, lest you see how a thing of beauty can become uglified. Now isn't it past your bedtime?

[motuorg]

oops

[motuorg]

Originally Posted by rich67

soooo....you are going to lock yourself in your home, never go anywhere or see anything, and get mad at people who DO go for fear of commercialization? Have fun with that.


Pompous. All your threads ring of it.


On top of that, you still belittle and judge people. Fantastic.



Just...wow. Again, your ego simply bursts through every post you type. I have been following your posts because you have got to be the most "full of myself" person I have yet read posting on any forum. A good old-fashioned debate is one thing. But debating on an internet forum with a bull-headed individual who refuses to do anything but push his anger and not offer anything productive to resolving a situation is no debate... it's a one-sided argument! Not in 10 pages of posts did you say anything remotely intelligent that would let people understand how you think the situation in Sedona could be bettered. Instead, you choose to resort to wanting to shoot people then apologizing for your outbursts and pass judgement on others. Out of all your articulate doubletalk, I can only arrive at this conclusion: your solution to keep nature areas pristine is to NOT GO! If that's the case, enjoy sitting at home in your La-Z-Boy while the rest of us enjoy all life has to offer and all this planet has to offer. As articulate as you are, it's a shame your thinking is so one-dimensional. I guess when you have lived your life in that manner, it's hard to snap out of it. Angry and pessimistic is no way to go through life. It'll make for a very short and miserable one.

You sound real hurt. | apologize for that...truly. But something keeps bringing you back to this thread..yes? You have been around here awhile...yes? Masochistic perhaps?
First, you know nothing about me. I am a bit angry about the Sedona situation, you're got that right. But I am not an angry person...you got that wrong (thou protesteth too much me thinks!) According to friends and family, I am rather gleeful and spread good cheer. Except for the town planners in my first post, I also try to refrain from ad hominem attacks on people's character as you have done above, especially if I don't know them. I find people who do this (like yourself) are generally insecure, have thin skin, cannot tolerate differences of opinion without attacking another's character (as opposed to idea), are scared alot, molest small fury animals, and are generally immature. I attacked what I percieve to be a problem about Sedona, and you attacked me directly. A BIG DIFFERENCE. Some of my criticism was tongue in cheek, but because it is YOU that are so serious...well...you just missed it. Perhaps it is you who are the angry one. I will agree with one item you said however. I did not offer solutions. But I did offer some praise to those who did, some off line. Oh...and thank you for reading and analyzing all my posts, though others may find you boring, ...I'm flattered!

[SedonaShadow]

Methinks responders are not Sedona property owners. For my final and concluding thoughts on Sedona. It herds in the tourists from 89a and 179. It sucks all the money it can get out of them by way of the following: Paint-by-numbers pawned off as art. Ditto for ceramics of any kind. Fantasies, such as vortexes which don't exist and are simply another gimmick, as is all the psuedo new age stuff. A chapel that isn't and has never had any religious significance and is just another Sedona souvenir shop. Restaurants that serve the same food as anywhere else but at a premium price. So called "festivals" that are simply the same tired people doing the same tired thing over and over ad nauseum. But hey, look at those beautiful red rocks. That's the message. No rocks and Sedona is not a town anyone would particularly want to visit.
I also believe that many people that have moved here now realize that the beauty of the rocks cannot overcome the shortcomings of the way Sedona is evolving. But they're retired and lock themselves in their gated communities untill the herds have thinned and then spend the better part of the year out of town. Did I mention I watched a bull elk lead his family up and over a mountain early this morning. He would go up a ways, turn around and wait for the rest to catch up at each level. I didn't see any roads, cars, tourists, houses for 4 hours. Poor Sedona Shadow; missed all the good stuff in beautiful downtown Sedona!