Sedona...a place to avoid (school, shopping centers, business)

[AlleyTD]

yep and I love that about humanity.

[rich67]

Originally Posted by motuorg

you know Rich, this thread has gone in ways I didn't exoect. I really need to express something I should have in the original post. Actually, I love Sedona. I love it too much. I went for th first time in 1986 , and feel that my life had changed from going there. i was dealing with alot of issues there. It had been my first trip out the east coast. I was so blown away by Sedona, that I had to go back to make sure I wasn't imaginig nit. I did go back, again and again, and that was the problem, becasue every time I saw changes I didn;t like. but I also realized that by continuing to go back I was becon=ming part of the tourist problem. The point i am trying to make is that it is the SEQUENCE, the metamrpjosis that saddens me. Unless someone has visited Sedona (or Flagstaff, Santa Fe) over two decades like I have, they wouldn't percieve it that way. Sure if I went to Sedona today for the first time, I would think it was beauitiful (like alot of Sedona 'rookies' posted), It is beautiful, but then again, they have not percieved the trend..the trend is downward.

As for solutions..there aren't any. As americans people should go and be and live where they want. I offer no solutions (though there are some who post here like Sedona Shadow who have a greater feel as citizens for possible solutions)

I am just saddened by seeing what was, is no longer, and worse, what is will no longer be. Hell if we can't save the rain forests, what does Sedona matter.

You called me alot of things..troll, egotistical, cantankerous, etc, but Hippie hater? Well that just hurts...I teach Yoga, have slammed back some mean psychotropics, and am a rebellious cantankerous ass. I am a hippie....sheesh.

I did mention I agreed with you... to an extent. But man, that New York attitude is just brutal!
(for those of you who don't realize, I am engaging in friendly ribbing of Motuorg.)
All's well that ends well.

[xwideopenskyx]

Originally Posted by motuorg

Can you be that slow? Places like Cleveland, Detroit were once beautiful....how do you suppose they became what they became? That's the point of the the whole thread isn't it. Places BECOME trashy don't they? They don't start out that way. I'll just stop here and won't give you too much of a hard time since you sound very young, quite naive, and lack life experience, lest you see how a thing of beauty can become uglified. Now isn't it past your bedtime?

This post really is a perfect reflection of you, isn't it? You don't know who I am, what my life experience has been and yet you will go right ahead and insult me. You also can't judge age well either, but I'm not surprised.

That post was meant for Sedona Shadow and not for you. He disclosed his age on a different thread.
But yet you avoided my post directed to you, did I touch a nerve?

Cleveland and Detroit were never tourist destinations the way Sedona is, what are you smoking? The deterioration of rustbelt cities is caused by many factors.........the tourists didn't overrun those cities! LMBO!

Based on all of your crazed comments, I think that you would benefit greatly from an anger management training and/or some prozac.

[SedonaShadow]

Sedona vs Cooperstown, N.Y. Long before there was an Arizona, a town at the end of a beautiful lake, surrounded by rolling hills came into being. You can Google for the rest. This is a tourist town bar none. The Baseball Hall of Fame, the museums, the opera, and much more. For over two hundred years they have maintained the town as close to it's origins as possible. NO fast food, drugstore, grocery, big box, restaurant, chain stores of any size, shape, form. NO condos, timeshares, apartments, hotel/motel chains. Can you imagine the offers and pressure the powers that be in Cooperstown have faced for CENTURIES! I know for a fact that even outside the city limits, land owners have refused offers from the very same types of people that have have been allowed to destroy Sedona. There it is folks. This is my coup de grace for the City of Sedona, the people that run it and the whiners that say "well, it's inevitable". There were a few cancers over the years but a little administrative radical surgery and no recurrence. I could go into extreme detail since I lived there and have been back many times. Now you know that I'm a native New Yorker and I more than any of you, understands the subject of this thread. Shame on anyone that has ever been involved in decision making for the City of Sedona. And shame on anyone who defends them.

[xwideopenskyx]

Originally Posted by SedonaShadow

Sedona vs Cooperstown, N.Y. Long before there was an Arizona, a town at the end of a beautiful lake, surrounded by rolling hills came into being. You can Google for the rest. This is a tourist town bar none. The Baseball Hall of Fame, the museums, the opera, and much more. For over two hundred years they have maintained the town as close to it's origins as possible. NO fast food, drugstore, grocery, big box, restaurant, chain stores of any size, shape, form. NO condos, timeshares, apartments, hotel/motel chains. Can you imagine the offers and pressure the powers that be in Cooperstown have faced for CENTURIES! I know for a fact that even outside the city limits, land owners have refused offers from the very same types of people that have have been allowed to destroy Sedona. There it is folks. This is my coup de grace for the City of Sedona, the people that run it and the whiners that say "well, it's inevitable". There were a few cancers over the years but a little administrative radical surgery and no recurrence. I could go into extreme detail since I lived there and have been back many times. Now you know that I'm a native New Yorker and I more than any of you, understands the subject of this thread. Shame on anyone that has ever been involved in decision making for the City of Sedona. And shame on anyone who defends them.

Since you are a native New Yorker, you along with all the other transplants have contributed to the growth of Sedona. Cooperstown isn't Sedona. I doubt if foreign tourists have even heard of Cooperstown. Growth does not equal destruction. Name a touristy city or town in AZ that hasn't grown in the last 2 decades.

[Annie Metal]

Originally Posted by GoodbyeCalifornia

I live in Sedona. And no, I'm not a New Ager or wealthy. I came here for a job opportunity and am happy that I did. So from the standpoint of a resident, I have to say that some of these posts are more than a little exaggerated.

Circle K's perched on red rocks? Where? Of the three Circle K's in the area, all are located in places where long standing development has already taken place. It's not like there's one planted at the base of Bell Rock for god's sake. Overpopulated? Well if a full time population of 12,000 qualifies a town as being overpopulated then I guess it is. Yep, there's an outlet mall in the Village of Oak Creek filled with a whopping 20 or so stores. It provides employment for people living in the Village and a place to get discounted clothing, shoes, and other items so they don't have to make the drive all the way to Flagstaff or Cottonwood to buy them.

The Village and Sedona both are seeing a lot of road construction. But if you're looking for someone to blame, go lodge a complaint with the State of Arizona, more specifically, the Arizona Department of Transportation. Since Highway 179 running through VOC and Highway 89A in Sedona are state highways, they control what happens on them, not the Village of Oak Creek or Sedona. The locals fought for years to stop this traffic circle nonsense but as usual, the state prevailed. The people living here are no more happy about it then anyone else.

The New Age crystal peddling, tarot card reading psychics and the pot smoking, patchouli scented hippie wannabes are here for sure. But just because they are very visible doesn't mean that they are in control or the majority in Sedona. They are very much in the minority and a source of occasional annoyance and head shaking for many of us. But they have as much right to be here as anyone else, so you learn to tolerate and ignore them, not stress out over it. Their mere presence isn't enough to stop me from enjoying a hike or whatever else I want to do around here.

No matter what, Sedona is still one of the most beautiful places in the world. Was it more beautiful many years ago? Probably. But the same can be said about the whole damn planet before us lousy humans came along. Nothing is static and unless you can figure out how to erect a bubble over your favorite spot to protect it, inevitably change is going to take place.

Those that call Sedona home have tried, and continue to try, very hard to preserve the beauty of the area and share it with others, while balancing it against their need to make a basic living and provide for their families. For the most part, they have been very successful. Do we all wish that it was the way it used to be? Of course, but there is a difference between fantasy and reality and most of us understand that.

Sedona isn't perfect, and it certainly has it's negatives which I have been happy to point out in other posts. But neither is it so completely ruined that it should bring people to tears or keep them from visiting. So come see Sedona or stay home. Either way, it won't really make a difference to those of us that live here.

i couldn't agree with you more!

[fnord]

Originally Posted by ArizonaBear

The first time I saw Sedona was 1989----------and, I liked it.

Been there recently and the last time I was there (passing through) ca. 2004-----------I wanted to get the hell out. The vibe was that bad.

As a former Phoenix resident, I made many trips to the Sedona area in the late 90s/early 00s. I knew at that time it was already ruined, yet still somewhat tolerable.

After several years away, I passed through Sedona in mid-2007. What a disaster zone - 4-lane highway being constructed, endless hordes of people. Last time I will ever go there, for sure. I pity the residents who have lived there their whole lives.

[ZonyPony]

Originally Posted by fnord

As a former Phoenix resident, I made many trips to the Sedona area in the late 90s/early 00s. I knew at that time it was already ruined, yet still somewhat tolerable.

After several years away, I passed through Sedona in mid-2007. What a disaster zone - 4-lane highway being constructed, endless hordes of people. Last time I will ever go there, for sure. I pity the residents who have lived there their whole lives.

Most long-time residents all over Arizona are feeling the crush of people, development, and traffic which has been infiltrating their once wonderfully serene and livable towns and cities.

Its a sad thing to watch, as the constant influx of newbies coming in complain about how behind-the-times or inadequate our infrastructure is, while rarely realizing that they've been responsible for creating it!

[rich67]

Originally Posted by xwideopenskyx

This post really is a perfect reflection of you, isn't it? You don't know who I am, what my life experience has been and yet you will go right ahead and insult me. You also can't judge age well either, but I'm not surprised.

That post was meant for Sedona Shadow and not for you. He disclosed his age on a different thread.
But yet you avoided my post directed to you, did I touch a nerve?

Cleveland and Detroit were never tourist destinations the way Sedona is, what are you smoking? The deterioration of rustbelt cities is caused by many factors.........the tourists didn't overrun those cities! LMBO!

Based on all of your crazed comments, I think that you would benefit greatly from an anger management training and/or some prozac.

He DID admit to using a lot of psychotropic drugs back in the day- maybe he's having a flashback.

[20yrsinBranson]

Originally Posted by motuorg

With Sedona it has grown into love/hate. I first went there in the mid-80's when nobody had even heard of it. I absolutely loved it, and loved hiking there, it was a piece of heaven. I have gone back about 10-12 times since and each time it has degenerated.

In 1987 or thereabouts, some idiot named Jose Arguelles wrote a book and started the whole Sedona Vortex thing...this had a few negative effects. There are Vortexes there alright, they suck in all the New Age idiots from California. Sedona has become New Age heaven. Vortexes!!! what a load of crap. If I want to believe it enough, I can find Vortexes right here in my living room in NY. Unfortunately, Sedona has become overpopulated and over visited (4 million visitors a years). I saw Circle K's perched on the Red Rocks. There's a good one. 250 million years of geologic history brought to its knees by a convenience store. And while your visiting one of the most geologically exquisite places on the planet, be sure to try the new outlet stores. Recently, the whole town is under construction. they are installing traffic circles everywhere and removing the lights. It was nightmarish getting around. Why not do a piece at a time .. NO KIDDING THE WHOLE TOWN IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION. Sedona has become a glorified theme park, a caricature of what it was and it saddens me greatly. I have come to realize by visiting, that I am like 4 million others that have come to trample it, build on it, and turn it into what every otheretourist trap town is about. For this reason, I shall not return. Hell...I can do all my shopping right here on Long Island.

Oh yeah...the town planners should be shot. And if they are dead already, they should be exhumed and shot.

Welcome to the capitalistic concept of economic growth and development. I wish I had a nickel for every fine little town that was destroyed by this blight. Oh, but the developers will call me a socialist - commie - worse. Everybody is trying to fill their pockets at everyone elses expense. It happens everywhere now. I'm not a fan of Arizona, having lived there for many years as a youth. But my condolences for your paradise lost.

20yrsinBranson