Sedona...a place to avoid (buy, gated, live)

[motuorg]

Originally Posted by Phoenix lady

I call anti-intellectual trusting what other people think and find..

You mean like vortexes and that sort of thing?

There's nothing more powerful then trusting your feelings. I agree (something that is not at all science). But if you hit a stone wall traveling at 150 miles per hour, the laws of physics say your probably gonna die. You can trust all you want. I am not denying the validity of feelings...you misunderstand me. Your statement, quoted above, only verifies my point and I thank you for that.

[Phoenix lady]

I think it is anti-intellectual to trust any "authority" on any subject. Of course, get opinions, but in the end, it's just you and your gut telling you what todo.I don't think Sedona is special because of what any author/book said/says. These places attract people--the books are only there because there's something special there first that some author writes about after. I wouldn't visit any place based on what I read, it would have to make sense or be appealing to me.
Going into a wall at 150 mph would not be listening to yourself that says it's pretty stupid. Having my chest cut open by a thoracic surgeon so he can rip out some of my arteries to make me feel better can be looked at as a scientific stupidity. Recently, there's a study out (yesterday or day before) that says cardiac bypass surgeries, stents and another type of procedure are "basically worthless." They only get superficial vessels cleared out or something to this effect and the problem continues. Where are those science wizzes who did the original studies??

I'm a reformed NY'er.

[kdog]

Originally Posted by Phoenix lady

I think it is anti-intellectual to trust any "authority" on any subject.
[...]
Recently, there's a study out (yesterday or day before) that says cardiac bypass surgeries, stents and another type of procedure are "basically worthless." They only get superficial vessels cleared out or something to this effect and the problem continues. Where are those science wizzes who did the original studies??

So in one breath you are saying never to trust any authority, and in another breath you quote a study done by, yes, an authority. It sounds like you're not anti-authority, but selectively choose authorities which support whatever it is you want to believe.

The fact is, when you have a clogged heart artery, oxygen is no longer being delivered to your heart muscle, and you are dying. Any method used to get oxygenated blood back to your heart will save your life. Stents, angioplasty, and bypass surgeries are the methods employed here. Talk to anybody that's had the operation done and they'll tell you that before the operation, their quality of life was reduced to sitting in a chair or worse. Afterwards, they lead a normal active life. Apparently you've never spoken with anybody who has had it done. I have.

What you may be thinking of is that in many cases these procedures don't increase lifespan. However, they increase quality of life while you are alive and that's important to most folks I know.

[Zel Ya]

Originally Posted by motuorg

With Sedona it has grown into love/hate. I first went there in the mid-80's when nobody had even heard of it. I absolutely loved it, and loved hiking there, it was a piece of heaven. I have gone back about 10-12 times since and each time it has degenerated.

In 1987 or thereabouts, some idiot named Jose Arguelles wrote a book and started the whole Sedona Vortex thing...this had a few negative effects. There are Vortexes there alright, they suck in all the New Age idiots from California. Sedona has become New Age heaven. Vortexes!!! what a load of crap. If I want to believe it enough, I can find Vortexes right here in my living room in NY. Unfortunately, Sedona has become overpopulated and over visited (4 million visitors a years). I saw Circle K's perched on the Red Rocks. There's a good one. 250 million years of geologic history brought to its knees by a convenience store. And while your visiting one of the most geologically exquisite places on the planet, be sure to try the new outlet stores. Recently, the whole town is under construction. they are installing traffic circles everywhere and removing the lights. It was nightmarish getting around. Why not do a piece at a time .. NO KIDDING THE WHOLE TOWN IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION. Sedona has become a glorified theme park, a caricature of what it was and it saddens me greatly. I have come to realize by visiting, that I am like 4 million others that have come to trample it, build on it, and turn it into what every otheretourist trap town is about. For this reason, I shall not return. Hell...I can do all my shopping right here on Long Island.

Oh yeah...the town planners should be shot. And if they are dead already, they should be exhumed and shot.

I'm getting vibes that Marianne Williamson is your favorite author.

[Phoenix lady]

Originally Posted by kdog

So in one breath you are saying never to trust any authority, and in another breath you quote a study done by, yes, an authority. It sounds like you're not anti-authority, but selectively choose authorities which support whatever it is you want to believe.

The fact is, when you have a clogged heart artery, oxygen is no longer being delivered to your heart muscle, and you are dying. Any method used to get oxygenated blood back to your heart will save your life. Stents, angioplasty, and bypass surgeries are the methods employed here. Talk to anybody that's had the operation done and they'll tell you that before the operation, their quality of life was reduced to sitting in a chair or worse. Afterwards, they lead a normal active life. Apparently you've never spoken with anybody who has had it done. I have.

What you may be thinking of is that in many cases these procedures don't increase lifespan. However, they increase quality of life while you are alive and that's important to most folks I know.

If your operation has helped you ,that's always a good thing and I'm glad it helped you. We have to look at what "authorities" say, esp. with some matters that we don't understand, but just buyer beware.
The original poster was talking about how an author wrote a book about the vortexes in Sedona, and how that was baloney and how it was very anti-intellectual to trust anything but "science." I was just responding that science isn't always infalible.

[kdog]

Thanks for the clarification, PL, and I agree. I guess I was only quibbling with your example which I took literally.

[motuorg]

Originally Posted by Phoenix lady

that was baloney and how it was very anti-intellectual to trust anything but "science." I was just responding that science isn't always infalible.

Actually the laws of science are infallible. Scientists aren't. Interpretation isn't. What we do with them isn't. You blamed flaws in the medical community on science...wrong? The blame is purely political/social. If I trip and fall, I don't blame that on gravity (a measurable fact of science). I don't blame the atomic bomb on science...it's what WE do with the facts of atomic theory. Laws of science are laws of science...period. Further I did not and would never grant science exclusivity regarding authority. i invite you to read my posts again...you're misinterpreting.
I simply asked you to prove to me that Vortexes exist in Sedona...beyond a personal feeling. The original author of these supposed vortexes didn't say it was simply his
'feeling" he said they exist.! I have heard terms like "energy" ..."multi-dimensional"..."spiritual transcendance" and a number of other undefined, vague, new age terms applied to them. Easy to hide behind these terms when you actually don't know what they signify.

[rich67]

Wow. 6 pages of this. Can't we all just agree to disagree? If you don't like Sedona, don't go there. If you can overlook some of the oddities there, then head out there and enjoy the other things the area has to offer. There are freaks everywhere. It's just a matter of whether or not you can just ignore them and enjoy yourself, or they interfere with your though process so much you get angry and have a miserable time.

[motuorg]

Originally Posted by rich67

Can't we all just agree to disagree? If you don't like Sedona, don't go there. jpg[/IMG]

And if you don't like this thread...don't go there. Obviously something interests you here, lest you would not post here. You might want to visit something more of interest to yourself...like "I'm moving to Kingman" or something like that. If I wish to debate a point...as others here want to, we can right? However, I can't disagree with your post..we have digressed.

Right now I want someone to justify the existence of vortexes in Sedona. that's all. If I recall correctly, it was after the 1987 publication first professing them that Sedona really began to "develop."

[motuorg]

Originally Posted by Zel Ya

I'm getting vibes that Marianne Williamson is your favorite author.

Hee hee