Sedona...a place to avoid (Tucson, Flagstaff: chapel, to live, restaurant)

[xwideopenskyx]

Originally Posted by motuorg

Right now I want someone to justify the existence of vortexes in Sedona. that's all. If I recall correctly, it was after the 1987 publication first professing them that Sedona really began to "develop."

If you're looking for proof of energy vortices, you may be waiting for a long time. They either only exist in our minds or our current scientific methods have not evolved enough to detect them. After all, gravity is a natural force that cannot be seen or felt, but it is there.

There is no scientific proof that God exists and yet millions of people believe in a Creator.

Sedona area has been considered sacred for centuries by the Native Americans who made regular pilgrimages to the site. There are many sacred sites, not only in AZ but throughout the southwest and the rest of the world. Some are well known and some are not. I have a view of such a site right from my window. It isn't sacred to me but it is sacred to the locals who have lived here for many, many generations. Who am I to question their beliefs?

These places do serve their purpose and scientific proof is really not necessary for many.

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by xwideopenskyx

If you're looking for proof of energy vortices, you may be waiting for a long time. They either only exist in our minds or our current scientific methods have not evolved enough to detect them. After all, gravity is a natural force that cannot be seen or felt, but it is there.

There is no scientific proof that God exists and yet millions of people believe in a Creator.

Sedona area has been considered sacred for centuries by the Native Americans who made regular pilgrimages to the site. There are many sacred sites, not only in AZ but throughout the southwest and the rest of the world. Some are well known and some are not. I have a view of such a site right from my window. It isn't sacred to me but it is sacred to the locals who have lived here for many, many generations. Who am I to question their beliefs?

These places do serve their purpose and scientific proof is really not necessary for many.

So very true.

I am not a religous person per se but do tend to be 'spiritual'

[Phoenix lady]

Quantum physics says a particle is both a wave and a particle. Science isn't as "unbending" as we were all told. Also, with this theory, the person observing the event is actually swaying the effects of the event. So, our perception is as important as the supposedly neutral event. They call this new science. Deepak Chopra talks about it and other new agers, but what he's trying to say is that things happening aren't strictly cause/effect relationship. The intermediary part is the person who's doing the looking! Our perceptions are everything in our own reality...

[motuorg]

Originally Posted by xwideopenskyx

If you're looking for proof of energy vortices, you may be waiting for a long time.

As long as it takes to overwhelm a small town.

If you don't think you can feel gravity, hold your arms straight out for 30 minutes. Gravity is very feelable, and it's very measurable. Unlike an alleged vortex. The problem with all this New Age nonesense is it professes science and spirituality, but it is niether. I teach science (external) and practice Buddhist meditation (internal). Both are long standing traditions. Both are verified through either scholarly work, peer review, or the consent of a master (teacher, Roshi or Sensei).
They are not fly by night, create it as you go, make up anything as long as you get a nice fuzzy naive feeling, the force of the day, simply believe it, loads of poo propagated by the New Age community. All that stuff is for one reason alone ...ego gratification. Reader's Digest Spirituality. Totally opposite of a proven spiritual TRADITION. Martial arts is a good example. I am trained by a master, the techniques are hundreds of years old, selflessness and humility are encouraged. i advance when the master says so. IT"S A TRADITION. In the New Age tradition, hell.. I can be a learn it at home kabbalist, or even a mail order kundalini master, or I can even create a new phenomenon with a cool name like VORTEX, and put it in a beautiful setting. Crystals, Angels, Astrology, Vortexes, wisdom imparted through the Pleiadeans, and all that other "I'll make up whatever I want to sell a book, so that naive idiots will buy it" crap, is simply part of the dumbing down process here in America (and in Sedona).

And as for Native American Sacred Sites. That is part of long standing tradition and cultural movement. I would never deny making something sacred...anything. I have taken part in Native American rituals and for the most part felt nothing. Why?...because it isn't part of my background. I have no context for them. It isn't part of my cultural history. New Age 'spirituality', as opposed to Native American spirituality is not grounded in history, tradition, or context. It generally is designed by people with little no training in either science or an authentic spiritual tradition, with plenty of the same to feed at the trough.

I am simply questioning the original authors claim that Vortexes actually exist. If you say "well..I want them to exist...It is my feeling and decision to make them exist in Sedona" then there is no need to go to Sedona to find them. You could save a load of dough by imagining them right in your own bathroom or pantry area.

[Steve-o]

Originally Posted by motuorg

Martial arts is a good example. I am trained by a master, the techniques are hundreds of years old, i advance when the master says so.

Nooooo, you advance when you can do a spinning 360 degree roundhouse kick and smash a gnat's testicles in mid air.

[motuorg]

Originally Posted by Steve-o

Nooooo, you advance when you can do a spinning 360 degree roundhouse kick and smash a gnat's testicles in mid air.

Oh yeah...forgot about that move.

[Robert_Roy]

I s'pose if one followed the logic we could all blame new age idiots from <you name the place> for everything we once found beautiful and now has changed. My sleepy little beach town IN CA isn't the same either and all those people came from somewhere else. Right ?

[motuorg]

Originally Posted by Robert_Roy

I s'pose if one followed the logic we could all blame new age idiots from <you name the place> for everything we once found beautiful and now has changed. My sleepy little beach town IN CA isn't the same either and all those people came from somewhere else. Right ?

????

[SedonaShadow]

I almost missed this thread! When I moved here 5 years ago I tried to explain to the good citizens of Sedona what to expect having watched other small tourist towns "ugly up" over time. I was ridiculed. "Never happen here!". I wish I could have the last laugh but it's too sad. Yes it is a 100% tourist town and the developers and businesses are going to make sure it progresses that way by hook or by crook. Since I am a hiker in the extreme, I see Sedona and the Village of Oak Creek from the tops of mountains almost every day and watch as the flow of tourists wind like an army of ants over the new roads, into the new resorts, into a Sedona that is doomed to commercialization. The mercury vapor lights are on their way, the "affordable" housing(projects), the inevitable crime. As far as the "vortex/new age" drift of this thread, the poor unthinking ants actually believe. Their faces go blank when I inform them that there are no signs or neon lights that will lead them to a vortex. Sit on that red rock. Can't you just feel the power! But I'm happy since I spend my days in the wilderness areas where I can't see or hear the anquish of the Sedona red rocks and my home is on a dead end dirt road away from the never ending flow of ants. There's no Wally World here and there is a lot of vacant land around me but you won't tell, will you

[motuorg]

Originally Posted by SedonaShadow

I almost missed this thread! When I moved here 5 years ago I tried to explain to the good citizens of Sedona what to expect having watched other small tourist towns "ugly up" over time. I was ridiculed. "Never happen here!". I wish I could have the last laugh but it's too sad. Yes it is a 100% tourist town and the developers and businesses are going to make sure it progresses that way by hook or by crook. Since I am a hiker in the extreme, I see Sedona and the Village of Oak Creek from the tops of mountains almost every day and watch as the flow of tourists wind like an army of ants over the new roads, into the new resorts, into a Sedona that is doomed to commercialization. The mercury vapor lights are on their way, the "affordable" housing(projects), the inevitable crime. As far as the "vortex/new age" drift of this thread, the poor unthinking ants actually believe. Their faces go blank when I inform them that there are no signs or neon lights that will lead them to a vortex. Sit on that red rock. Can't you just feel the power! But I'm happy since I spend my days in the wilderness areas where I can't see or hear the anquish of the Sedona red rocks and my home is on a dead end dirt road away from the never ending flow of ants. There's no Wally World here and there is a lot of vacant land around me but you won't tell, will you

Thank you for this post Sedona Shadow. "Poor unthinking ants"... an apt analogy but an understatement, some of them actually think the world will end in 2012 (ants, on the other hand are somewhat intelligent). BTW, most people don't know what a Mercury Vapor light is....nor, when explained to them, do they care. That's another thing, the complete loss of the night sky. I teach astronomy and have seen it happening all over the southwest (as well as the entire country) It depresses me. Hell...if you want to do something spiritual, save the night sky...forget about all those countless stores with purple Coyotes.

Oh, and don't count out Wally World..they'll find a way, they always do.