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Don't live in either, passed through and stayed in both.
That being said; I'd take SF over Flag about any day. I do dig the downtown and Old Town of both. But as a tourist....you see only what you want to see. My gut tells me that Flag is a far more working class town with small town 'issues' than SF where they are perhaps 'more refined'.
If I were still in my mid 20s I'd take Flag for the younger feel and bars etc and be happy living in a small home shared with others. (no you're not the only one) But being in my now latter half 40s I'd have to take the more relaxed and quiet afforded me by SF.
Reality; I could prob swing Flag, but no way I could afford SF.
Although a smaller town, Flag has more of those raised "cloud of black diesel" pickup trucks with the thousand dollar pimp wheels. Was out on Route-66 yesterday at Flagstaff Planet Nissan and some Billy Jack bubba was exchanging his elevated red F-250 with apocalypse now wheels and rims that you need a six foot ladder to get into for a shiny new low-sling Nissan sports coupe - imagine, going from a "look-at-the redneck with a inferiority complex" persona to a Michael Shumacher wanna-be. Tagline: You can dress it up to be something it's not, but a pig's still a pig, and as soon as Billy Jack opens his mouth to speak, the truth will be known to one and all, especially in a university town. Both Santa Fe and Flag are nice, but tread carefully around the goofballs.
yep. and regardless of the vehicle, bet he's still "size" challenged.
Dan,
I've lived in both and I'd say that they both have similar issues.....i.e. expensive housing (that is, for a SMALL town), some residents are unfriendly to newcomers, both towns have meth labs, pot smokers, and not many opportunities for scientific and technical occupations (that makes them both very different from Boulder where there are lots of scientists).
The social scene is more "Bohemian" in Flagstaff compared to Santa Fe where it seems that one has to be "formal" to be accepted. Of course, the average age in Flagstaff is 26 vs. mid 40's in Santa Fe, so that has something to do with it. Personally, I prefer things to be more informal.
The differences are in the age of the founders of the two cities (1600's vs. 1800's) and resulting architecture; the average age (26 in Flagstaff vs. 40's in Santa Fe), and the local politics. Santa Fe has more of a sense of social justice since they raised their minimum wage to the highest in the nation ($9.50+/hr?). Santa Fe has also done a better job of allowing more businesses to come in compared to Flagstaff, where there are not enough mass merchandisers to keep up with demand.
In terms of crime and drugs, all of the individual neighborhoods in Santa Fe and Flagstaff are are going to be different from each other. In either city, you can be in a good area and then walk 3 blocks and be in a drug district. It's best to keep all doors doubled-locked and multiple anti-theft devices on vehicles at all times.
Of course, if both cities would let even more businesses in, then people wouldn't go for drugs as an escape. That's the one thing these Southwest towns have yet to understand! Back in Seattle, we promote economic growth with low taxes and provide free health care, so everyone can function and be healthy. All these cities have to do is let businesses relocate, and they'll solve the drug and crime problems that seem to dominate discussions on these City-Data forums.
Flagstaff has a HUGE urban bike trail system and a significant percentage of people bike to work all year long, even in the snow. Oh, yes indeed - Santa Fe only gets about 20" of snow a year - Flagstaff.....100" ! On the other hand, Flagstaff doesn't generally have the 50mph New Mexico winds from "back door cold fronts" that move east to west from the Great Plains...
You may wish to watch Flagstaff small business owner Morgan Hagaman on this Arizona Daily Sun video discussing his plans for running for City Council (last April, 2008). (Sadly, he lost.) In this 3 min. video, Hagaman (33) details the problems of Flagstaff. He talks about how Flagstaff is "competing" with other towns like "boulder, bozemann and boise." If I'm in Flagstaff next year, I'll volunteer to campaign for him:
As for your other post, I don't know how to receive private messages from you on this forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miami_Dan
If you had the the opportunity to live in either Flagstaff AZ or Santa Fe NM which would it be? I would really like to find someone who has lived in each (or resides in one or the other currently, etc.).
I make a solid salary and understand the real estate issue (no need to ramble on about high costs of living, etc.).
I am much more interested in the 'vibe': entertainment, arts, surrounding areas to visit, music, people, crime, good areas to live, etc.
I have visited each area (Flagstaff considerably more), but am leaning toward SF. What is the rumor about Crystal Meth problems around SF/Espinosa? Crime in Flag?
I am a 40 yr old, hetro-male, single; hence, 2cents on dating scenes?
Lastly, Santa Fe Aspens really threw me off while I was there....did not expect that = awesome. I am considering relocating to one of the above as I enjoy the high desert environment and am an avid outdoorsman.
"they cannot decide whether they are college, old hippy, new agers or rednecks"
Quote:
Originally Posted by drb85650
lived in Flagstaff, have been thru Santa Fe multiple times. Santa Fe hands down.
The "vibe" as you put it in Flagstaff isn't always pleasant. It's like they cannot decide whether they are college, old hippy, new agers or rednecks hiding from the government.
Well.......I'd say the same categories apply to Santa Fe, too. Probably true of all small towns. As a bicyclist in Santa Fe, drivers hated me. There are no bicyclists over there, no bike lanes, and I felt very uncomfortable with all the 4WD's speeding over the limit. I vividly remember having to stop 2 blocks from the Plaza in the dark for a stream of speeding cars to go by before I could cross the street. At least in Flagstaff, there are desginated bike lanes and nobody ever speeds. Really weird, because in Albuquerque they don't speed either. I guess they are all too rich and elitist in Santa Fe so they think they have to drive faster to make more money? I just don't know.
Overwhelmingly, Flagstaff is very liberal. In Coconino County, 65 % voted for Obama, up from 60% voting for Kerry in 2004. This percentage would be much higher within Flagstaff city limits. The liberal NPR station gets 13 shares in the ratings, one of the highest NPR stations in the US. Only three counties in Arizona were blue in 2008.
As for new agers and aliens in Flagstaff, yes indeed, Sedona is just 17 miles away...
Although a smaller town, Flag has more of those raised "cloud of black diesel" pickup trucks with the thousand dollar pimp wheels. Was out on Route-66 yesterday at Flagstaff Planet Nissan and some Billy Jack bubba was exchanging his elevated red F-250 with apocalypse now wheels and rims that you need a six foot ladder to get into for a shiny new low-sling Nissan sports coupe - imagine, going from a "look-at-the redneck with a inferiority complex" persona to a Michael Shumacher wanna-be. Tagline: You can dress it up to be something it's not, but a pig's still a pig, and as soon as Billy Jack opens his mouth to speak, the truth will be known to one and all, especially in a university town. Both Santa Fe and Flag are nice, but tread carefully around the goofballs.
If I may comment on cars, too? While you may complain about our Flagstaff F-250's+, I will complain about your speeding Subaru Outbacks/Forresters going 55 mph northwards on Cerrilos in the vicinity of the Plaza, honking at all of us newbies who don't immediately take off when the lights turn green. And, your SUV's (of all makes and models) doing likewise, narrowly missing bicyclists, who with great trepidation attempt to make their way through town. Sorry, I just don't get why people speed in a self-proclaimed art community like Santa Fe. This requires an explanation, especially considering that the F-250's (that you allude to) don't speed here in Flagstaff. (OK you already know by now that I am just being sarcastic just to make a point that these small mountain towns are not as desirable as first thought to be!)
drb85650 - Good point. I have visited Flag > 20 times and completely agree - just didn't know how to express that! I posted this same thread on the Santa Fe site.......most everyone so far has said SF is a better place to be (of course in their perspective - for various reasons).
I will say I had a blast in Flag this summer (4 days) hopping around the local bars listening to a great variety of music. Something I did not find in SF after 3 weeks!
Thanks so much everyone; this is confirming what I was thinking.
Dan:
Where is your other thread on the Santa Fe site? I can't find it. Is it on the New Mexico site somewhere?
As for your alternative musical interests, you can google the two alternative weeklies for Northern AZ: 1) "Flagstaff Live" and 2) "The Noise"
If I may comment on cars, too? While you may complain about our Flagstaff F-250's+, I will complain about your speeding Subaru Outbacks/Forresters going 55 mph northwards on Cerrilos in the vicinity of the Plaza, honking at all of us newbies who don't immediately take off when the lights turn green.
Yes, so true.
Myself, I'm hung-up on people who have to have a bigger hammer in all things than anyone else, as I see it as a glaring character weakness that I like to ridicule.
We all are guilty of stereotyping, characterizing, marginalizing, looking down our noses at people we see b-e-h-a-v-i-n-g differently than us (no excuses of course for people who do this based on ethnicity/skin color/religion), and it is definitely not an attractive way to behave. I'm guilty!
Subaru's are especially popular in Flagstaff what with the local dealership in town that happens to have one of the best Subaru service departments in the southwest, and let's face it: Subaru's (along with Saab's in the northeast US) have supplanted Volvo as the vehicle of choice for college professors, the safety obsessed driver, people with images of being environmentally responsible, and (even) the young who love those pocket rocket WRX's. Of course the all wheel drive Subaru's are handy when traction is compromised, and in Flagstaff winters it comes in handy. Having a Subaru in Phoenix is kinda silly - why not a Prius with all the driving you do down there? Ever read "Drive", Subaru owners magazine? IMO the best magazine of all the vehicle manufacturers, emphasizing travel, the green lifestyle, and the expected marketing plugs and service tips. Funny thing if you really think about it: Subaru's really don't get that great of gas mileage, but it's good enough when combined with its top rated all wheel drive system to allow it's owners to view the BIG four wheel drive SUV's and trucks as wasteful excess to be scorned.
Last edited by Ria Rhodes; 11-30-2008 at 09:03 AM..
Thanks all. I lived in PHX after college (yes, ASU) for over a decade. Several things I have noticed about Flag have been spoken of, but upon departing town one lasting impression always was the "ranchy-cowboy" type culture. Florida has "swamp billies"; TVA "hillbillies"; CA "hippies"; in AZ "miner/cowboy billies?"
Outside of the liberal vibe maybe downtown, there is always the large truck cowboy hovering around town. Is Santa Fe like that?
Welcome to City-Data.com forum! Make sure to register - it's free and very quick! You have to register before you can post and participate in our discussions with 700,000 other registered members. User profiles and some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your free account you will be able to customize many options, you will have the full access to over 15,000 posts/day about local topics and you will see fewer ads. 
Ok, that is not the kind of dating question I was referring too!
Both Santa Fe And Flagstaff Have Similar Problems
While you may complain about our Flagstaff F-250's+, I will complain about your speeding Subaru Outbacks/Forresters going 55 mph northwards on Cerrilos in the vicinity of the Plaza, honking at all of us newbies who don't immediately take off when the lights turn green. And, your SUV's (of all makes and models) doing likewise, narrowly missing bicyclists, who with great trepidation attempt to make their way through town. Sorry, I just don't get why people speed in a self-proclaimed art community like Santa Fe. This requires an explanation, especially considering that the F-250's (that you allude to) don't speed here in Flagstaff. (OK you already know by now that I am just being sarcastic just to make a point that these small mountain towns are not as desirable as first thought to be!) 
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