Flagstaff or Santa Fe - Santa Fe or Flagstaff (Phoenix: 2010, neighborhoods)

[goofyboy]

This is where I <a href="http://www.50statesforum.com">MOVED</a> to

[CCCVDUR]

Hi see responses in BOLD:
You'd be interested to know we have the highest percentage of MA degrees per capita of any U.S. city.
I've always wondered why these M.A.'s aren't running for the Flagstaff city council in order to fix the problems you mention below:
The only crime I've experienced personally in all my years was a 1) a dishonest contractor who stole money while in my home and 2) a group of kids who were breaking into cars and opened my unlocked door one night,
Boulder's copyrighted City-Data crime score is half that of Flagstaff. Crime is way too high for a city of 52,000 and unfortunately the locals don't care and didn't vote Morgan Hagaman into city council - he wanted to increase the police force.
housing prices stay high, jobs are scarce unless you like to work as a professor, doctor, hotelier, or in the food industry. Meaning, the middle class is going to disappear here very quickly and already is. Small businesses are mostly disappearing, as are young families.
It's a very sad story and the locals don't vote people into office like Hagaman, who wanted to decrease taxes on new construction and new businesses, reducing unemployment, and increasing the affordabilty of housing. The Flagstaff Chamber of Commerce was against all these fees - the City Council was for it. Our twin city of Boulder only has an unemployment rate of 4%. Here in Flagstaff it's more than double that.

[Xavious Orgus]

[quote=Miami_Dan;6495382]

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

Great post. I think you could be correct. People in Santa Fe and all of northern New Mexico do seem elitist and always after more money and huge homes. They seem to look down on people new to town who don't share their wealth. Or, they hire you, and then fire you.

How about Boulder? That's a place I'm thinking about if Flagstaff doesn't work. Do you think it's that way there, too?
__________________________________________________ ____________
Hey Tom,

While I was touring Colorado a couple of other cool towns I passed through were:

Salida, Manitou Springs (up the hill West from Colorado Springs), and Glenwood Springs.

Lastly, everyone seems to like Fort Collins.

I know this was not directed at me, but........ My sister has been living in Fort Collins the past 8 years. Having spent a great deal of time in Fort Collins myself, I can definitely say without a doubt it is a great place!!! And yes, the majority of people living in Fort Collins love it!!

[BillR1]

Originally Posted by Xavious Orgus

I know this was not directed at me, but........ My sister has been living in Fort Collins the past 8 years. Having spent a great deal of time in Fort Collins myself, I can definitely say without a doubt it is a great place!!! And yes, the majority of people living in Fort Collins love it!!

Ft. Collins, CO?
What's not to love? It's WAAAAY nicer than Flagstaff.

[adventuregurl]

Originally Posted by nmnita

and why is this? Have you lived in both cities???

Nita

No I have visited both places many times (and dated a guy from Flag for a year a while back) and probably wouldn't pick either place to live, but to chose between the two, Sante Fe would be my choice hands down. I live very close to Flag. and I just don't like the vibe there and find that whenever I'm there (which is often, as Sedona doesn't have many shopping opportunities), I just can't wait to get out of town. It feels to me as though there is no sense of community and it feels a little disjointed or something. I can't put my finger on it. By no means am I saying that no one should live there, just not me, EVER.

[CCCVDUR]

Originally Posted by adventuregurl

"........I live very close to Flag. and I just don't like the vibe there and find that whenever I'm there (which is often, as Sedona doesn't have many shopping opportunities), I just can't wait to get out of town. It feels to me as though there is no sense of community and it feels a little disjointed or something. I can't put my finger on it. By no means am I saying that no one should live there, just not me, EVER."

Reply to Adventure Girl:
I agree, there is something that I can't put my finger on either about Flagstaff. On the other hand, after living there for much of 2008, whenever I go to larger cities (Albuquerque, Palm Springs, etc.) I find myself uncomfortable because these areas are overpopulated, without the "Bohemian-outdoors-atmosphere" that I value.

As for a "sense of community," someone pointed this out to me the other day: Part of the situation with Flagstaff and vicinity is there are so many different groups who settled in Northern AZ to get away from larger areas - i.e. students who tend to be more introverted and Bohemian, the liberals, the artists, the outdoor Bohemians, the bicyclists, the Buddhists, various religious groups (i.e. Fundamentalists) etc.

And, the existing Conservatives ranchers and lumbermen who have been there for 100+ years.

Consequentially, these groups don't tend to talk to each other, because they share radically different life philsophies. They came to northern AZ to get away from larger cities. That's NOT a bad thing at all, but could that be why you and I feel there isn't a sense of community in Flag??? This friend of mine also said that Tehachapi CA is also this same way.

Is it also like this in Yucca Valley, CA? Just drove through there, briefly. Perhaps Arizona bear is reading this and can comment?

How about Boulder, CO? I wonder if Boulder is more homogeneous (i.e. most people think alike w/ the same life philosophy)?

Also, another friend said that when he came here 30 years ago, it took him one year before he made a friend, because people were so "cliquish."

Another friend of mine in Santa Fe says that the city spits you out for three years before you assimilate.

Could it be that we're talking about shy people with different life philosophies who are drawn to the isolation of mountain towns in the first place? Is that why the Boulder, Santa Fe, Ashland, and Flagstaff City Councils don't want new businesses, since they have an aversion to change?

[BillR1]

In my opinion, much of the reason for Flagstaff's lack of "community" is the nearly constant turnover of it's population. This is REALLY a transient place, so many (most?) people are very hesitant to form close relationships with someone who will probably be moving soon. MANY people come for the scenery and quickly realize they can't actually make a living here, so they end up leaving after a year or so.

[ihynes]

In addition to some of the above opinions, the high cold desert around Flagstaff is biologically kind of boring, even if it has great vistas. The national forests near Santa Fe are much richer in plant species, rivers, everything.

[CCCVDUR]

Originally Posted by BillR1

In my opinion, much of the reason for Flagstaff's lack of "community" is the nearly constant turnover of it's population. This is REALLY a transient place, so many (most?) people are very hesitant to form close relationships with someone who will probably be moving soon. MANY people come for the scenery and quickly realize they can't actually make a living here, so they end up leaving after a year or so.

Good point. How about Yucca Valley, California, where you can buy a home for $100,000 on 5 acres? People can actually move to Yucca Valley and buy homes, and not be transient - in contrast to Flagstaff. And, there are jobs in nearby Palm Springs, California 30 miles away.

Arizona Bear, did you once say yucca valley was one of your favorite places?

[coffeesally]

I just had to put in my two cents again...
I have over 14 years experience living here, so I would know. :-) I am a SAHM, an artist, a former business owner for three years and a former Flagstaff public school teacher for five years, so I've have quite a range of experience in a large cross-section of this little city. That being said, I think this city has a GREAT sense of community and it isn't hard at all to get to know people. If you say hi, someone will say hi back. If you take a step further and say you just moved to town, you will most likely be invited to a dinner or guitar-picking evening. I have many friends and acquaintances who have lived in larger cities and said that Flagstaff was ridiculously friendly... to the point that they were taken aback. If you have lived here for a year and don't know anyone, I honestly have to wonder if you are holing up in your house all the time or just sort of a shy person. Like anywhere, you have to take the first step and have a positive attitude about where you live. Flagstaff isn't for everyone, just like New York or Jacksonville or any other place. But to be so hard as to generalize everyone here, I think, more likely reflects on the person telling the story. There are reallllllllly good folks here. I know everyone in my neighborhood and did from the first week we moved in. Just three days ago, my husband was surprised to discover a neighbor had used his snowblower to clear our driveway, then did it again the next day. If your car breaks down here, you will have a helping hand. If you want to go skiing, stick out your thumb and someone will drive you up to the Bowl.

As for this "funny feeling" about Flagstaff... I think that is your gut's way of saying it just isn't your town and you need to follow your heart! But, in the meantime, give us a chance and remember that you can't generalize folks like that.

There are lots of other reasons to move elsewhere like our expensive housing, lack of jobs, etc.

:-)C