Flagstaff or Santa Fe - Santa Fe or Flagstaff (Phoenix: transplants, 2009)

[BillR1]

Originally Posted by coffeesally

I just had to put in my two cents again...
I have over 14 years experience living here, so I would know. :-) I am a SAHM, an artist, a former business owner for three years and a former Flagstaff public school teacher for five years, so I've have quite a range of experience in a large cross-section of this little city. That being said, I think this city has a GREAT sense of community and it isn't hard at all to get to know people. If you say hi, someone will say hi back. If you take a step further and say you just moved to town, you will most likely be invited to a dinner or guitar-picking evening. I have many friends and acquaintances who have lived in larger cities and said that Flagstaff was ridiculously friendly... to the point that they were taken aback. If you have lived here for a year and don't know anyone, I honestly have to wonder if you are holing up in your house all the time or just sort of a shy person. Like anywhere, you have to take the first step and have a positive attitude about where you live. Flagstaff isn't for everyone, just like New York or Jacksonville or any other place. But to be so hard as to generalize everyone here, I think, more likely reflects on the person telling the story. There are reallllllllly good folks here. I know everyone in my neighborhood and did from the first week we moved in. Just three days ago, my husband was surprised to discover a neighbor had used his snowblower to clear our driveway, then did it again the next day. If your car breaks down here, you will have a helping hand. If you want to go skiing, stick out your thumb and someone will drive you up to the Bowl.

As for this "funny feeling" about Flagstaff... I think that is your gut's way of saying it just isn't your town and you need to follow your heart! But, in the meantime, give us a chance and remember that you can't generalize folks like that.

There are lots of other reasons to move elsewhere like our expensive housing, lack of jobs, etc.

:-)C

I'm glad you've had a good experience here, but it's certainly different than many people I know. I've been in the area 10 years myself, and I feel this is a VERY difficult place to make friends. I have a buddy that recently moved away, and he'd been here 17 years. He said that Flagstaff never felt like "home" due to the elitist attitude of many of the people here.
Flagstaff to me is one of the most unfriendly places I've EVER lived, FAR worse than either Denver or Miami. I've lived both in big cities and in MUCH smaller towns than this, and never have I felt more isolated or alone.
BTW, I work in customer service, so I HAVE made an effort to be friendly.

[coffeesally]

Originally Posted by BillR1

I'm glad you've had a good experience here, but it's certainly different than many people I know. I've been in the area 10 years myself, and I feel this is a VERY difficult place to make friends. I have a buddy that recently moved away, and he'd been here 17 years. He said that Flagstaff never felt like "home" due to the elitist attitude of many of the people here.
Flagstaff to me is one of the most unfriendly places I've EVER lived, FAR worse than either Denver or Miami. I've lived both in big cities and in MUCH smaller towns than this, and never have I felt more isolated or alone.
BTW, I work in customer service, so I HAVE made an effort to be friendly.

Hi, Bill.
Gosh, I am really sorry to hear you have had that experience. That sucks. I wonder if it would help if you joined some community activities or organizations... My experience and my family's has been very different. I don't always think being in customer service is the best place to meet folks, but better is the day-to-day kind of living where you meet neighbors and generally just put yourself out there, invite folks over, get into some conversation... It really is what you make of it. I probably know hundreds of families from my diverse experience here and most all of those families are kind, generous and very real people. But hey, maybe the way you are feeling is a reflection of something deeper telling you to move to a new place. I visited Portland a couple of times and just couldn't feel at home there. My best friend moved there and she loves it. So, there you go...

I think generalizing is what people do to pit one group against the other. It's not a real way to go about finding a solution or answer. Best to you!

[adventuregurl]

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

Could it be that we're talking about shy people with different life philosophies who are drawn to the isolation of mountain towns in the first place? Is that why the Boulder, Santa Fe, Ashland, and Flagstaff City Councils don't want new businesses, since they have an aversion to change?

I'm not sure what it is about Flag but it makes me feel uncomfortable when I'm there, I just want to get out...maybe it's that it's neither a small and quaint city or a 'big city".

I am by no means here to slam Flagstaff, just wanting to chime in with my 2 cents worth. One mans beauty is another mans ugly!

[oscottscotto]

Santa Fe definitely ... no offense to Flagstaff (it's a neat place too).

[BillR1]

Originally Posted by adventuregurl

I'm not sure what it is about Flag but it makes me feel uncomfortable when I'm there, I just want to get out...maybe it's that it's neither a small and quaint city or a 'big city".

I know exactly what you're talking about. My wife and I were discussing this just recently. There's "something" here that just doesn't feel right or good...

[adventuregurl]

Originally Posted by BillR1

I know exactly what you're talking about. My wife and I were discussing this just recently. There's "something" here that just doesn't feel right or good...

I wish I liked it more as it is quite close for shopping or cooling off the summer, however I never seem to want to go there.

[poolgirl51]

Originally Posted by adventuregurl

I wish I liked it more as it is quite close for shopping or cooling off the summer, however I never seem to want to go there.

Odd, because I love going up to Flag! I really enjoy the town and and the climate difference. It is amazing to have such a change just 28 miles north of Sedona. To each his/her own.

[lone sailor]

Perhaps all of you who can not exactly pin point why Flag doesn't feel quite right, not friendly, not homely, etc, are really just wishing this place to be something that it is not, and therefore not taking the full advantage of who and what it really has to offer. I'm not saying it is for everyone, but sometimes looking at it from a different perspective or from an outsiders view changes the way it may seem to you. When people move from one place to the next, a lot of times the things you liked about a previous location doesn't always follow to the new location. Possibly more effort on MAKING it a better place would do more good than complaining and/or running away screaming wolf.

[CCCVDUR]

Responses to "CoffeeSally" from Tom Lane in Blue...
You have a different experience - we all do....
I think this city has a GREAT sense of community and it isn't hard at all to get to know people. If you say hi, someone will say hi back....
Not in my experience, but I've been in the two worst neighborhoods of Flagstaff...!
If you take a step further and say you just moved to town, you will most likely be invited to a dinner or guitar-picking evening
Not in my experience. People do not even bother to return telephone calls or emails.
..... I have many friends and acquaintances who have lived in larger cities and said that Flagstaff was ridiculously friendly... to the point that they were taken aback.
Folks I know from larger cities don't like Flagstaff because it is unfriendly. An acquaintance with a company in California thought of moving his operation here. He did not, because he had heard about how unfriendly people are.
If you have lived here for a year and don't know anyone, I honestly have to wonder if you are holing up in your house all the time or just sort of a shy person.
The people who I know well moved here from out of state. They share my concerns expressed in my various posts.
Flagstaff isn't for everyone, just like New York or Jacksonville or any other place.
With my political personality, I'd love to try Manhattan if I could afford it. (LOL) However, I love the scenic beauty of Northern Arizona from the Peaks down to Sedona - I think that, within the Southwest, it is the most beautiful area of all of the high desert!
But to be so hard as to generalize everyone here, I think, more likely reflects on the person telling the story.
No it's certainly NOT generalizing to everyone. I'm speaking for several newcomer friends of mine who are frustrated with the system. I know someone who moved here 30 years ago who also found it cliquish, and it took him one year to break in to the groups and make friends. He did not move away and became a VERY successful local businessman! This cliquishness is just part of the territory in these small art colonies......
There are reallllllllly good folks here. I know everyone in my neighborhood and did from the first week we moved in.
Wow you are in one of the great neighborhoods of Flagstaff - I wish my two were this way (and one may soon be)!
If your car breaks down here, you will ave a helping hand.
Yes, but the mechanics overcharge, taking advantage . A friend of mine has *SEVERE* head gasket and overheating problems and the mechanic did not even bother to tell her. It was readily apparent to me within 15 seconds of noticing sludge in the coolant. Fortunately, I do my own tune ups on my car and help with others. Sadly, many college students my same age are getting ripped off w/ the local mechanics. Well, all businesses in general know that rich yuppie in parents in Phoenix will bailout their kids.
If you want to go skiing, stick out your thumb and someone will drive you up to the Bowl.
Yes, but very dangerous. City-Data crime index for Flagstaff is twice the national average. Compare that to Sedona where it is less than half the national average, or Boulder where it is slightly below.
But, in the meantime, give us a chance and remember that you can't generalize folks like that.
Sometimes you can generalize. However I DO AGREEw/ you that there ARE VERY good people in Flagstaff as I have met several.
There are lots of other reasons to move elsewhere like our expensive housing, lack of jobs, etc.
Why do residents vote people onto the City Council who discourage business growth? Why do they not vote people like Morgan Hagaman in who wants to reduce the Flagstaff COL (Cost Of Living)? If I'm here in 2010 and he runs again, I'll campaign for him....

[coffeesally]

Tom,
In my experience, when someone literally disagrees with everything another person says, there is usually a deeper problem. I have extended my hand to meet you half-way in your arguments, but your tone is so negative. I'm okay with that and take no offense, but for the readers, I am standing up to say your Flagstaff is not mine. And I've put in a good 12+ years here. Why stay and bash a town where obviously others are enjoying their families, friends, native American citizens, culture, natural outdoor activities and eeking out a living with good old-fashioned elbow grease? My husband and I have worked very hard in our lives (i.e. he built a house from ground up on little to nothing, I taught children in this community to speak English, etc.) and covet our many, loving, loyal friends who have chipped in to be near our sides when calamity struck. It isn't a perfect town. It has its problem. It has some crime (NOTHING like what you infer). It has a tough, tough economy... but consider this:

The energy you put into something is what you get out of it. If you want to see ugly and refuse to expect goodness around you, then that is what you will see. I truly wish you the BEST. It sounds you have had a rough time of it. I've been in places that literally seem to kick me out because I am supposed to move on with the next leg of my journey. So be it! You can't make one city another. Maybe the wind is blowing you to Boulder because that is where your dreams will and should come true. :-)

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

Responses to "CoffeeSally" from Tom Lane in Blue...
You have a different experience - we all do....
I think this city has a GREAT sense of community and it isn't hard at all to get to know people. If you say hi, someone will say hi back....
Not in my experience, but I've been in the two worst neighborhoods of Flagstaff...!
If you take a step further and say you just moved to town, you will most likely be invited to a dinner or guitar-picking evening
Not in my experience. People do not even bother to return telephone calls or emails.
..... I have many friends and acquaintances who have lived in larger cities and said that Flagstaff was ridiculously friendly... to the point that they were taken aback.
Folks I know from larger cities don't like Flagstaff because it is unfriendly. An acquaintance with a company in California thought of moving his operation here. He did not, because he had heard about how unfriendly people are.
If you have lived here for a year and don't know anyone, I honestly have to wonder if you are holing up in your house all the time or just sort of a shy person.
The people who I know well moved here from out of state. They share my concerns expressed in my various posts.
Flagstaff isn't for everyone, just like New York or Jacksonville or any other place.
With my political personality, I'd love to try Manhattan if I could afford it. (LOL) However, I love the scenic beauty of Northern Arizona from the Peaks down to Sedona - I think that, within the Southwest, it is the most beautiful area of all of the high desert!
But to be so hard as to generalize everyone here, I think, more likely reflects on the person telling the story.
No it's certainly NOT generalizing to everyone. I'm speaking for several newcomer friends of mine who are frustrated with the system. I know someone who moved here 30 years ago who also found it cliquish, and it took him one year to break in to the groups and make friends. He did not move away and became a VERY successful local businessman! This cliquishness is just part of the territory in these small art colonies......
There are reallllllllly good folks here. I know everyone in my neighborhood and did from the first week we moved in.
Wow you are in one of the great neighborhoods of Flagstaff - I wish my two were this way (and one may soon be)!
If your car breaks down here, you will ave a helping hand.
Yes, but the mechanics overcharge, taking advantage . A friend of mine has *SEVERE* head gasket and overheating problems and the mechanic did not even bother to tell her. It was readily apparent to me within 15 seconds of noticing sludge in the coolant. Fortunately, I do my own tune ups on my car and help with others. Sadly, many college students my same age are getting ripped off w/ the local mechanics. Well, all businesses in general know that rich yuppie in parents in Phoenix will bailout their kids.
If you want to go skiing, stick out your thumb and someone will drive you up to the Bowl.
Yes, but very dangerous. City-Data crime index for Flagstaff is twice the national average. Compare that to Sedona where it is less than half the national average, or Boulder where it is slightly below.
But, in the meantime, give us a chance and remember that you can't generalize folks like that.
Sometimes you can generalize. However I DO AGREEw/ you that there ARE VERY good people in Flagstaff as I have met several.
There are lots of other reasons to move elsewhere like our expensive housing, lack of jobs, etc.
Why do residents vote people onto the City Council who discourage business growth? Why do they not vote people like Morgan Hagaman in who wants to reduce the Flagstaff COL (Cost Of Living)? If I'm here in 2010 and he runs again, I'll campaign for him....