Flagstaff Proposed New Name: Abundance With A View (Phoenix, Tucson: for rent, Home Depot)

[CCCVDUR]

Originally Posted by Greatday

Tom, the unemployment rate in Flagstaff / Coconino County has always been higher (generally) than the rest of the state.

And Tom - Durango is of no consequence. Flagstaff is Flagstaff - not Durango, or Boulder.

Better get used to it Tom.

Why not bring in more businesses to decrease unemployment in Flagstaff / Coconino County?

Durango is of significance, with a thriving tax base of permanent residents, tourists, and second homeowners.

Unemployment in Durango is only 5% and just 6% in Boulder.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

Why not bring in more businesses to decrease unemployment in Flagstaff / Coconino County?

Tom, you aren't real knowledgable in the Hopi and Navajo Tribes, are you? For if you were, you would understand / answer your own question.

And no, Durango is not relevant as the population background is not similar.

[CCCVDUR]

Originally Posted by Greatday

Tom, you aren't real knowledgable in the Hopi and Navajo Tribes, are you? For if you were, you would understand / answer your own question.

And no, Durango is not relevant as the population background is not similar.

I do not know what you are implying. The Native Americans, and all others in Northern Arizona, all want more grocery stores and cheaper food. Furthermore, Flagstaff desperately needs more jobs. Durango is relevant since they are also a college / outdoors town, with just 5% unemployment . . . and Superwallmart is their 4th largest employer . . .

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

I do not know what you are implying. The Native Americans, and all others in Northern Arizona, all want more grocery stores and cheaper food. Furthermore, Flagstaff desperately needs more jobs. Durango is relevant since they are also a college / outdoors town, with just 5% unemployment . . . and Superwallmart is their 4th largest employer . . .

Tribal members have grocery stores - both on the Navajo Nation and off - and grocery products at competitive prices. No Walmart is going to significantly reduce those prices.

The tribes have historically had high unemployment numbers and building a WalMart will not change that.

Many individuals, in Flagstaff and throughout the State, do not want a "big box" store, or another strip center, near their homes Tom. They don't want the noise, the pollution, the congestion that centers like this bring.

If, and its a big IF, the people of Flagstaff actually wanted the centers you advocate, they would be built. But, without the public support, they will not be built.

The fact is Tom - government is suppose to listen to the people - and the people in the Flagstaff area, are not clamoring to adopt the ideas that YOU say they "need".

To be blunt Tom - you are an outsider - you predispose that YOU know better - that YOU know more - that YOU know what is best for the people of Flagstaff.

But it seems, the people of Flagstaff disagree with you. And, I'll trust the locals judgment, over a person like you, any day of the week.

No offense.

[locoenlacabeza]

Originally Posted by Greatday

Tribal members have grocery stores - both on the Navajo Nation and off - and grocery products at competitive prices. No Walmart is going to significantly reduce those prices.

The tribes have historically had high unemployment numbers and building a WalMart will not change that.

Many individuals, in Flagstaff and throughout the State, do not want a "big box" store, or another strip center, near their homes Tom. They don't want the noise, the pollution, the congestion that centers like this bring.

If, and its a big IF, the people of Flagstaff actually wanted the centers you advocate, they would be built. But, without the public support, they will not be built.

The fact is Tom - government is suppose to listen to the people - and the people in the Flagstaff area, are not clamoring to adopt the ideas that YOU say they "need".

To be blunt Tom - you are an outsider - you predispose that YOU know better - that YOU know more - that YOU know what is best for the people of Flagstaff.

But it seems, the people of Flagstaff disagree with you. And, I'll trust the locals judgment, over a person like you, any day of the week.

No offense.

the tribes have very little to do with the lack of super walmart in flagstaff.
the monkey lovin tree huggers in flagstaff are what has kept the "big box" stores out.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by locoenlacabeza

the tribes have very little to do with the lack of super walmart in flagstaff.

the monkey lovin tree huggers in flagstaff are what has kept the "big box" stores out.

Oh, I think that the residents of Flagstaff really do not see a need for any of the so-called big box stores in Flagstaff.

And, my comments about the Native Americans actually referred to (originally) to the unemployment rate Tom was pointing to - as being high in Coconino County - and I was pointing out to him that included in that Unemployment number were those who lived in Coconino County who live on the Navajo Nation - where unemployment is always high. Tribal members get their annual checks (per family member) and that is their income for the year.

Face it - if the people of Coconino County, most noteably Flagstaff, don't want WalMart or Costco etc, its no big deal.

[locoenlacabeza]

Having lived in Flagstaff for 8 years, smack dab in the middle of the "big box debate" I can assure you there are plenty of residents who would love to see a big box come in.
Basically Flag needs to decide what its going to do- either grow or not. It can't continue building like a large city but not offer shopping options for people or better less crowded streets to drive on. It can't be both ways. The city does not want big box stores because it likes to claim to be a "small town" but then continues to build and build and build.....

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by locoenlacabeza

Having lived in Flagstaff for 8 years, smack dab in the middle of the "big box debate" I can assure you there are plenty of residents who would love to see a big box come in.
Basically Flag needs to decide what its going to do- either grow or not. It can't continue building like a large city but not offer shopping options for people or better less crowded streets to drive on. It can't be both ways. The city does not want big box stores because it likes to claim to be a "small town" but then continues to build and build and build.....

I agree with you - there is the population segment that wants expansion of the "big box" concept. But, as you noted, Flagstaff (the residents) are in the throws of debating the future of Flagstaff.

One of the issues of course is the element of available land - and being the area is surrounded by Forest Service land - and then the tribal lands, there are certainly boundary limitations that are going to be hard to beat

IMO, and as a property owner in Flag for well over 30 years, Flagstaff will not go "big city" - Ultimately, they will, again IMO, remain a smallish mountain college town -

[locoenlacabeza]

Originally Posted by Greatday

I agree with you - there is the population segment that wants expansion of the "big box" concept. But, as you noted, Flagstaff (the residents) are in the throws of debating the future of Flagstaff.

One of the issues of course is the element of available land - and being the area is surrounded by Forest Service land - and then the tribal lands, there are certainly boundary limitations that are going to be hard to beat

IMO, and as a property owner in Flag for well over 30 years, Flagstaff will not go "big city" - Ultimately, they will, again IMO, remain a smallish mountain college town -

But thats just it, Flag is NO LONGER a smallish mountain college town. Its over crowded and over built with a sh*t economy. Flag couldn't sustain the building and growth that happened 10 years ago, let alone what is being done now. Even the people lack small town attitudes.

The first time I lived in Flag I was 14- hehe maybe remember GIRLS RANCH? anyway, i was enamoured with the place having come from the valley where no one knew eachother and no one waved as you drove down the street. Flag was just that. Everyone knew one another and everyone waved even if you didn't. I fell in love with the place.
By the time I was old enough to move back on my own at 19 and start raising my family that small town mind was gone. No one cared anymore. Rarely did anyone wave or even attempt to be neighborly.
So for those people in Flag who hold on to the "small town" hopes of Flag, I think you're fighting a losing battle. Flag hasn't been a small town in a good 15 years or more. So to attempt to keep out big boxes and other sources of progress is just done in vain....You lost your small town too long ago.

I do agree that Flag will never be PHX- thats not what im saying but if everyone trys to keep the mindset that "oh flag is just a small mountain town" blah blah blah, then at what point will you realize that you over built with no resources to sustain that growth?

I personally think its already happened, but thats jmo.
I think it happened right before our very eyes and no one was aware that it was happening.

[CCCVDUR]

Originally Posted by locoenlacabeza

the tribes have very little to do with the lack of super walmart in flagstaff.
the monkey lovin tree huggers in flagstaff are what has kept the "big box" stores out.

Absolutely. I THOUGHT I was on the side of Democrats when I moved to Flagstaff. However, I discovered that the Democrats in Flagstaff are "socialistic" control freaks, trying to block the YMCA, the Superwallmart, and many other projects that could benefit the Middle Class and families. Same problem in Santa Fe, NM; and Boulder, CO; where there is no Superwallmart or Costco, with significant retail leakage to Albuquerque and the Denver Metro respectively.

Back in Seattle if you are a liberal Democrat, you are automatically pro-business - since the big box stores Fred Meyer and Costco were born in Seattle/Portland. Both are unionized stores, providing benefits and at least a third of all grocery receipts in the Seattle Metro. So I cannot, nor will I ever, understand the anti-business, anti-union, anti-wallmart, anti-middle class, Elitist attitude in Boulder, Flagstaff, and Santa Fe. These communities have a gap between the rich and the poor, that simply would not be acceptable in most communities in the Seattle area.

I don't have much money; I am not thriving under the leadership of these far left control freaks twice my age in political power with their anti-business, "smart growth" agendas. Places that I know where you can go and not deal as much w/ anti-business, anti-growth attitudes are Yucca Valley, CA; Las Vegas, NV; Cary, NC; Durango, CO; and much of Texas and Oklahoma. People end up moving to Boulder/Ft. Collins/Denver, Flagstaff, and Santa Fe, only to find themselves bankrupt -- due to the Elitists in political power exerting their non-negotiable, anti-business agenda. And, their horrendous regressive taxes, such as Boulder's carbon tax under discussion right now.