Brewer wanting to increase taxes and a big no no (pay, single)

[BillR1]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Everyone USES education. Where do you think those doctors treating all the old farts self-inflicted maladies came from? I saw on another blog the remark: Think education is expensive - try ignorance.

Sorry, but I don't buy it.
It's almost the same as making people that don't even own a car pay the gasoline taxes to maintain the roads.
Making people that don't have kids at home pay for an obviously badly-broken public education system is just wrong!
Place the burden of an "education tax" on the people that have kids in the system, and/or give them the choice to place their kids (and their tax monies) in a charter school where the kids might actually GET an education.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by BillR1

Sorry, but I don't buy it.
It's almost the same as making people that don't even own a car pay the gasoline taxes to maintain the roads.
Making people that don't have kids at home pay for an obviously badly-broken public education system is just wrong!
Place the burden of an "education tax" on the people that have kids in the system, and/or give them the choice to place their kids (and their tax monies) in a charter school where the kids might actually GET an education.

Charter schools are public schools. Anyone can attend. Some are good, some are among the very worst. Anyway, not going to argue some nutball suggestion that is never going to happen. The discussion needs to focus on how to make public schools better, not on how to help right wing freeloaders.

[BillR1]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

The discussion needs to focus on how to make public schools better, not on how to help right wing freeloaders.

"right wing freeloaders"...LMAO!
Forcing the many to pay for the needs of a few sure sounds like socialism to me.
If that makes me a "right wing freeloader" in your eyes, I'll take the title proudly.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by BillR1

"right wing freeloaders"...LMAO!
Forcing the many to pay for the needs of a few sure sounds like socialism to me.
If that makes me a "right wing freeloader" in your eyes, I'll take the title proudly.

And if believing that all of society should share in the cost of educating its youth makes me a "socialist", then Ill take that title proudly, as well.

[Milwaukee City]

A Milwaukee Brewer wants to raise taxes? lol.

[BillR1]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

And if believing that all of society should share in the cost of educating its youth makes me a "socialist", then Ill take that title proudly, as well.

Fair enough. I guess we'll agree to disagree on this.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Well, we have been around about this before and I think you agree, your ideas about privatization are never going to take root. Given that reality, we should do what we can to make our schools as great as the can be. I think that begins with adequate funding.

Certainly one of the issues with public schools is the funding, of which there is plenty! I've mentioned numerous times how much education spending outranks all other expenditures ... even in a state like Arizona, which according to all the reports, is low compared to other states. Throwing more money at education is not the way to improve it. We've seen the proof. After all the spending, and all the voter approved tax hikes & budget overrides for schools, all we keep hearing is how there's not enough education funding ... and the public system is still in a shambles.

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

I often see posts from you where you express a desire for Phoenix to attract headquarters, F500 companies, high tech industries and diversified professional services. That will not happen with the lousy reputation our schools have. No one is going to move their company here when the managers fear their children will suffer and when the schools and universities can not sustain a qualified labor market.

This is true. The Phoenix metro area needs more large, reputable corporate HQs for a good, solid economic base, competition, and higher wages. This requires people with ambition, skills, and education. Instead, the area attracts large flocks of transients who seek out the Phoenix area for reasons like sunshine, dry air, cheap housing, etc. We need to find ways to attract less of those types, and more of the more successful, ambitious types ... but things like all day Kindergarten, and higher taxes for schools that underperform as it is won't attract big business. Fortune 500 firms want an educated, talented populace, but also LOW taxes, and a business friendly atmosphere. I highly doubt that most Fortune 500 CEOs & upper managers send their children to public schools anyway. They'll usually seek out a good private institution and pay the cost out of their own pockets. (At least the trustworthy ones will.)

Originally Posted by odinloki1

The devil is in the details with privatization. Tell me the details of how it would be successful with ALL children.

It won't be successful with ALL children ... just like the current public system isn't successful with all children. A fair share of kids who don't try hard enough & show a lack of interest in education eventually drop out anyway ... so what's the difference?

Originally Posted by odinloki1

Where will all of these private school teachers come from that would make privatization successful?

From the public system ... and they'd be more successful under the privatized system because increased competition would allow them to seek out schools which offer better salaries & benefits. You know (or should know) that people generally make more money in the private sector. The low teachers' pay wouldn't be as much of an issue like it is in the public system.

Originally Posted by odinloki1

What would happen to the children of parents who had no money, couldn't make the commutes to the good schools. Who gets to go to the successful schools and what happens those that can't?

It's like anything else in life. Those with money will have few issues, while those who are struggling will just have to obtain loans, or tighten their belts & sacrifice all the non essentials. I'm sure you're aware that many struggling middle class/lower income families usually have a plethora of gadgets which they don't need (multiple TVs, cell phones, laptops, Ipods, SUVs, etc.). I went to a private school in my youth, and my parents weren't wealthy by any means. We simply did without all the perks.

Originally Posted by odinloki1

I am open to the idea of privatization, but hows this going to help the average kid, not just the above average ones? I want actual details not just cliches about how wonderful competition is.

I was an average kid, and private education certainly helped me. I went on to receive two college degrees (also from a private university), which I paid for, along with some help from my employer at the time. Taxpayers certainly don't have to be subsidizing the cost of education when there are many other methods for the "poorer" ones to receive assistance: charities, their workplace, family, friends, and their own fiscal responsibility!

Originally Posted by BillR1

"right wing freeloaders"...LMAO!
Forcing the many to pay for the needs of a few sure sounds like socialism to me.
If that makes me a "right wing freeloader" in your eyes, I'll take the title proudly.

Absolutely correct! Although, I don't consider myself to be a right winger ... and I'm certainly not a freeloader. The real freeloaders are the people with kids who expect the public to fund the cost of raising & educating their children, and don't even feel guilty about it. Unfortunately, you & I are probably in the miniorty, but I strongly believe that if I want something, I will pay for it out of my own pocket. I'd feel like a sponger if I took advantage of the public school system and used it as free daycare like many parents do.

[shiphead]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Absolutely correct! Although, I don't consider myself to be a right winger ... and I'm certainly not a freeloader. The real freeloaders are the people with kids who expect the public to fund the cost of raising & educating their children, and don't even feel guilty about it. Unfortunately, you & I are probably in the miniorty, but I strongly believe that if I want something, I will pay for it out of my own pocket. I'd feel like a sponger if I took advantage of the public school system and used it as free daycare like many parents do.

This kind of statement gives me this scenario. All children are banned from being in the United States and all adult immigrants that come here must be neutered, like our pets.

Having parents pay for their kids education was possible back when wages were fairly compared to houses.

[homlish560]

I don't like the idea of all schools being private. Yeah, we'll do better with greedy Corporations and corrupt CEO's flying in on their private jets running our schools.

On the other side of the coin I think BillR1 and Valley native have some good points about maybe only those with kids should pay school taxes. Some of us like being single and child-free. Why should we have to pay for kids that aren't ours??????

As for taxes, I'm kind of agreeing with Brewer about possibly raising them.

I mean, I don't like taxes any more than the rest but if it can be done where everybody pays the same rate it might work.

[observer53]

Sorry, I'm single, no kids, and I don't mind paying school taxes. I recognize the obvious, that districts, individual schools, and teachers are not of uniform quality, but I believe in public education and its value to the community and to society as a whole.