No Smoking in AZ Bars & Restaurants After May 1st, 2007! (place to live, lawsuits)

[tfox]

Originally Posted by Desertlovers

I feel sorry for the restaurant and bar owners who have to start enforcing the smoking ban in Arizona today. This is their "worse nightmare!"

Funny, it hasn't been a problem for any of the other 35 states that have a smoking ban. Why would only bar owners in Arizona have problems enforcing it?

[azloafer]

Originally Posted by tfox

Funny, it hasn't been a problem for any of the other 35 states that have a smoking ban. Why would only bar owners in Arizona have problems enforcing it?

I agree. There was an article in the paper saying exactly what you have said.

[Desertlovers]

You've got to be kidding! Restaurant and bar owners don't want to be put in this position...where they have to serve as "cops" and "narcs" and risk turning a large percentage of their customer base away.

None of this is easy...and most restaurant and bar owners aren't happy about the new ban. (Except for a very few who happen to be hard-core anti-smokers themselves.)

It hasn't been easy for restaurant and bar owners across the country. This is why so many owners or tavern associations have challenged the bans in court.....And, it's not just about enforcing the ban, it's about economic hardships when their sales go down after bans are put in place. Claire

[azloafer]

Originally Posted by Desertlovers

You've got to be kidding! Restaurant and bar owners don't want to be put in this position...where they have to serve as "cops" and "narcs" and risk turning a large percentage of their customer base away.

None of this is easy...and most restaurant and bar owners aren't happy about the new ban. (Except for a very few who happen to be hard-core anti-smokers themselves.)

It hasn't been easy for restaurant and bar owners across the country. This is why so many owners or tavern associations have challenged the bans in court.....And, it's not just about enforcing the ban, it's about economic hardships when their sales go down after bans are put in place. Claire

No, I,m not kidding. There was an article in the US Today recently that mentioned something about 30 some states having this ban with POSITIVE results. I looked for it to give a direct quote but it went out with the recycle stuff. Maybe a regular subscriber can do a search for the article?

[AOYAS]

Originally Posted by irwin

There is a difference between indoor air pollution and outdoor air pollution. There are different dangers and contain different particles. The main problem with smoking is the carcinogens in the air. Ambient air pollution deals mainly with ozone and particulates. Rather than directly causing cancer, they are more likely to cause chronic lung disease.

Apples and oranges I am afraid. Nice try though.

BTW, I am selling my car...

Very true. This person is trying to compare car exhaust/fumes with smoking indoors? Dumb. People aren't running their cars in restaurants, while aiming their exhaust pipe directly into the booths next to them, and the noses of other patrons. Some people just don't understand how to give a legitimate, valid, or logical argument...they just grasp at any straw they think will prove their point. It seems to make them lose credibility more often than it helps their cause. You're absolutely correct, irwin....apples and oranges.

[AOYAS]

Originally Posted by SElaine

I agree with sablebaby. This is by far the best, most informed, rational post I have read on this forum. Thank you for your enlightened story.

Thanks for the compliments, sablebaby and SElaine! I try...

[Desertlovers]

When a ban first goes into effect, it is "nightmare" for restaurant and bar owners. They have to do all of the work! They have to play "mom/dad" and "narc" and disappoint a large percentage of their customers.....Who in the world wants to do this???

Change is never easy! It's naive to think that this is a "piece of cake" for restaurant and bar owners.

And many restaurant and bar owners watch their regular customers stay home, and they watch their sales drop.....

This is why there are so many law-suits out right now in different states challenging smoking bans. Some bar/restaurant owners end up taking their cases to their state Supreme Court. (This is going on in Nevada and Kansas right now...and maybe in other states too.)

This is all documented.....All of this information is online. But, I guess most people look for information that seems to validate their beliefs and "point of view"....and stop there.

[azloafer]

Originally Posted by Desertlovers

When a ban first goes into effect, it is "nightmare" for restaurant and bar owners. They have to do all of the work! They have to play "mom/dad" and "narc" and disappoint a large percentage of their customers.....Who in the world wants to do this???

Change is never easy! It's naive to think that this is a "piece of cake" for restaurant and bar owners.

And many restaurant and bar owners watch their regular customers stay home, and they watch their sales drop.....

This is why there are so many law-suits out right now in different states challenging smoking bans. Some bar/restaurant owners end up taking their cases to their state Supreme Court. (This is going on in Nevada and Kansas right now...and maybe in other states too.)

This is all documented.....All of this information is online. But, I guess most people look for information that seems to validate their beliefs and "point of view"....and stop there.

Where did you get this information? The USA Today said that over 30 states are pleased with the results and it turned out to be positive for the restaurants. It didn't say anything about bars that I can recall.

[AOYAS]

Originally Posted by Desertlovers

This is all documented.....All of this information is online. But, I guess most people look for information that seems to validate their beliefs and "point of view"....and stop there.

You mean, kind of like what you're doing?

Like I mentioned before, I was a smoker, and if a place I wanted to visit did not allow smoking, I would go outside when I felt the urge to light up. It's not impossible. It's not even difficult. It's not the biggest burden I can think of anyone having to undertake. It's not even a medium-sized burden. It's just something smokers'll need to get used to, and deal with.

I sincerely doubt that bars/restaurants will lose much business, if any. Smokers, in general, will not stop going to bars and restaurants because they can't smoke inside. They'll just walk outside for four minutes when they want to smoke, and then they'll go back in. They'll bit** and moan for a while, but they'll soon realize that their complaining isn't changing anything, and that it's only serving to alienate those around them, so they'll get over it. Did all you smokers stop going to movie theaters or malls when smoking was banned in those places? Do you boycott airplanes, as well? For the most part, no. You got over it, and continued on with your lives.

If anything, as others have mentioned before, the businesses will most likely retain the majority of their previous smoking and non-smoking clientele, while gaining more non-smokers' business that couldn't patronize their establishments prior to the smoking ban, for fear of risking their health. When I lived in CA, smoking wasn't (and still isn't) allowed in bars, and they were almost always packed to the gills, no matter what location, day, or time. Smokers in AZ will soon realize that there are MUCH more important things in life to complain and argue about than being made to walk outside to pollute their lungs, so as not to also pollute the lungs of those around them indoors, and they will just continue on with their lives, frequenting the same places they used to frequent before the ban. They'll just spend a little more time outdoors, now, is all.

Have some respect for your fellow citizens, and quit the whining. It's not getting you anywhere, and in fact, it's making your argument appear more and more selfish and transparent.

[AksarbeN]

Interesting mess of arguments ~ like religion, politics, smoking shouldn’t be discussed sometimes.

It’s funny how “both sides” pickup on other off topic points to bring into the argument. Seems the only argument now left about smoking or not ~ is restaurants and bars. I remember when you could smoke in any type of store, even in movie theaters. Maybe we (as a society) have learned something over the years? No smoking in theaters, clothing stores, shoe stores, grocery stores, offices, etc. etc. etc. ~ this has come down to two places that are being argued now, restaurants and bars. Why the problem with these places and not the others?

It comes down to one thing ~ it’s the law and people (smokers and non) voted for what they wanted. Maybe there are too few voters that smoke ~ most may have already passed on?