No Smoking in AZ Bars & Restaurants After May 1st, 2007! (Scottsdale: sale, buy)

[SElaine]

Originally Posted by JMX

Well, just in this thread there are three long-time Arizona residents who've said they're leaving because of how much the state has changed in recent years. I wonder how many more of us there are? With all the newcomers from California, Chicago, Philly and other bastions of big government, I guess it's not surprising that Arizona is adopting the big-government ways too. What a shame.


What concerns me the most about this discussion is not really the smoking ban itself. I'm not a smoker so it doesn't affect me at all. But what does concern me is the outright disregard for the property rights of others. Like I said earlier in this thread, the fact that bars and restaurants are privately-owned establishments is simply irrelevent to many people. It baffles me how people can rationalize that away as if it's not important. What is the basis of thinking that a business owner has to accomodate the wishes of anyone who chooses to walk in the door? And what's truly frightening is how some people seem to revel in the power of being in the majority and how that means they get to force their will upon others.

When a majority of people have no qualms about disregarding property rights, do you really think your home will somehow remain unaffected? History shows us that that is not the case. History is replete with examples of where the well-intentioned majority has caused great harm to many people. I shudder to think of what it's going to take to make Americans realize what they have so willingly given up. A government that is powerful enough to give you every little thing you want, is powerful enough to take away what is most important to you.

JMX,

With all due respect, there is a significant difference between someone's home (private area) and businesses that are open to the public. It shouldn't matter how the business is titled, or who owns it. If you decide to be a business owner you abide by the laws that govern the area your business is in. In Arizona, and in many other states, that now means no smoking. If a business owner doesn't want to uphold the laws in the state in which they are doing business they should move their business or go into another line of work. And in the same respect, if an individual doesn't like the laws in this state, they have every right to move somewhere else. The government in this country is not perfect and there is no way to please everyone. The most democratic and fair thing to do in these cases is take it to the people and let them vote. That's what happened. The PEOPLE wanted the smoking ban, the PEOPLE voted, and then in became law. The government just didn't pull this out of nowhere. Sometimes a few have to give up what they feel is their "right" to protect the rights (and in this case, health) of the many.

The fact is we as a society are more educated about the long term damange of second-hand smoke. The fact is there are more non-smokers than smokers. We are changing as a society. We can't stay in the 1960's forever. It's about time we evolved and started living in this decade.

[ecloebl]

Originally Posted by aj661

Not even close! Did I say non-smokers would barred? Only that with warning signs they would be entering with the knowledge that an activity they were opposed to was allowed on the premises. Comparing a business allowing smoking to forced segregation? Incredible. If anything, the current ban has much more in common with your example than what I said. It is exclusionary, but even it only applies to the activity. At least for now.

You missed the point entirely....................

[RockyMtnr]

I am at least a little surprised at the reports that some businesses have increased with smoking bans. Studies bear-out that the small businesses go broke from lost customers long before they can recover with non-smokers only ... and maybe it's because I lived in Wyoming so long - where folks don't take kindly to regulation. Also, maybe it's because AZ is so close to CA and therefore, in some kind of different world.
I was also surprised how much of a non-issue smoking is in the heavily populated eastern states (some of them, anyway) where tobacco is grown as a cash-crop.
Gad, next thing you know, they'll stop letting them smoke pot in gym-class!!

[azloafer]

It is apparent, when reading these posts that even if God came down and said, "SMOKING SHOULD BE BANNED!", there would still be people planning their next argument

[Stumblina]

Originally Posted by azloafer

It is apparent, when reading these posts that even if God came down and said, "SMOKING SHOULD BE BANNED!", there would still be people planning their next argument

If God wanted smoking banned, he wouldn't have created tobacco. God also gave us the power of "free thinking" so that we could make our own choices in life without having to have "big brother" come snooping around and tell us what we should/should not or can/cannot do. This is all just ludicrous. I'm a NON SMOKER and even I don't agree with this stupid law. If you don't want to be bothered by smoke, stay away. I do. Or sit outside . . . there's plenty of patio eating in Arizona with more than enough good weather days. Give restaurants the CHOICE of being "smoke free" or not. Here, in Michigan, there's LOTS of smoke free restaurants and they WERE NOT "forced" to do it. The amount of time spent around tobacco smoke in a restaurant or bar will not kill you, unless you're there 24/7. Quite frankly, I'm more afraid of being killed by a non-smoking drunk driver than I am of second hand smoke.

[rmont]

Smoking has been around for centuries. Americans brought it to the form of a cigarette as a convenient alternative to carrying a pipe or cigars. Women fought for their right to smoke in public in the 1920's and won. There was no law, it was acceptance of society.

Commercials were on the radio and NewsReels were shown in theaters for the next 30 years explaining the dangers of smoking. With the advent of television, tobacco companies became important sponsors in getting this new technology off the ground. The health issue was put aside a bit but there were lopsided commercials of a doctor saying "don't smoke, but if you do, smoke my brand". It was a natural part of society until the early 1990's when people started saying - Gee, I didn't know it was bad for me.

Very intelligent. You'd think they'd be embarassed to admit that in public.

This thread isn't about smoking itself; we've heard from smokers, ex-smokers, non-smokers, an obviously former drug addict, and more. It's about losing liberties. It's about having law upon law upon law telling us what's right or wrong in our personal choices. (Hopefully someday they'll outlaw coffee; the addiction to caffiene is amazing.)

We talk about tolerance and show none. You should see some of the things I've been called for writing these posts - but is there anything I've said that's not true? No. I'm told I'm uneducated and have no life. If anything I'm far too over-educated and, well, maybe I do travel too much to have what an average suburbanite would consider a life.

I stumbled on this site quite by accident. But I stand by my statement that people are so busy focusing on nothings that they are entirely missing what's really important. I've seen enough of life and politics to know that when you make absolute choices for another person, you have trouble. People too easily forget the past.

Life moves on, and so do I...

[azloafer]

Originally Posted by rmont

I have a couple of friends who never smoked. Ate right, worked out, only drank when they were watching football, rode their bicycles to work every day for 10-years... they aren't breathing any more because of the respiratory disease from riding to work everyday.

Maybe you should feel fortunate. On the other hand, I see people all the time that can't walk a few feet without breathing heavy. More walking cures that.

Wow, a cure for emphysema!

[Desertlovers]

Governor Janet Napolitano came out in heavy support of the total smoking ban. I heard her say this many times....And, someday, her position on the smoking ban may come back to haunt her! I know I won't be voting for her.

Governor Bill Richardson just signed a smoking ban into law in New Mexico. I feel the same way about him...He won't get my vote in the Presidential primary next year.

Democrats won BIG in the last election because people were upset with the policies of the Bush Administation....

But this may not be the case in the future if the Republican party is able to rebuild itself...and get back to its Conservative values. (As an advocate of small government...not BIG government!)

City, county, state governments and the federal government have to enforce and prosecute laws....even if they didn't pass the bills & laws themselves.

Some of us want "less government" not BIG government!" Claire

[AksarbeN]

WoW!! I’m getting impressed more everyday with this thread. It has become more humorous each day with the arguments for and against. We have people moving out of state because they want to smoke in bar or restaurant. God has been brought into the topic. And I now see that God created tobacco so we could smoke it as yet another argument for allowing it. LOL-ROTF God created lots of things but I don’t think he/she would want us to abuse our bodies by doing stupid things. He gave us ink but I don’t think he/she would want you to disfigure and tattoo your body. He/she gave us poker chips but I don’t think he/she would approve of gambling. He/she gave us an attractive neighbor’s wife, but I don’t think he/she wants use to be disloyal to our wives. Yeah,,,, God grew tobacco so lets smoke it!

If you allow smoking in bars and restaurants then lets allow it in hospitals, libraries, church, courtrooms, gas stations, airplanes, buses, theaters, etc. etc. Yeah lets allow smoking everywhere.

Can we get back to the logic - it was voted on by the majority and became law. We all need to abide by the law. Just that simple, otherwise we can all drive 40-45 in a school zone, or run red lights, or drive on the wrong side of the street, and park in a fire zone. Is there anyone out there who is clear thinking? It’s the law, simple!

[Desertlovers]

We live in a Democracy....We have the right to speak out against laws we don't agree with....

We have the right and freedom to question laws...and the right to fight to have laws repealed and modified....if we don't agree with them!!

We live in a Democracy....not a Monarchy or Communist country. We're all entitled to "free speech!" And, we have the right to question laws....This is the "American way!!"