Aircraft Noise (Phoenix, Tucson, Scottsdale: buy, construction, airport)

[Ritchie_az]

"It is not like living next to a railroad track yada, yada."

But it is. Didn't you move to Phoenix in the 1970's? The airport was there. If you didn't have the foresight to see a growing city and a growing need for an expanded airport, that's on you for being short-sighted.
You knew the airport was there, now you are complaining about the noise. Sad.

"Sky Harbor is a bad citizen."

Says you. I believe Sky Harbor is a top-notch airport, and Phoenix is very fortunate to have it centrally located. I don't see how you can say Sky Harbor is a "bad citizen."

"and interferes with downtown development."

Oh, I see, your precious downtown. Why can't you live within the dynamics you have? Why this need to change the dynamics just to satisfy you?

"In time, a jet is going to crash into ASU or a dense housing area or downtown Phoenix."

Maybe, there is a very small chance of that. But a truck or train with hazardous cargo could blow up in downtown, too. Should we move the freeways and railroad lines?

"If you were planning the city now, would you in your wildest imagination put a major international airport where Sky Harbor is?"

Why not? Not many cities have the luxury of a centrally located airport. I think if there was one change, the city planners would likely acquire more land around the airport.

"It's only going to get worse with more flights"

Well, supposedly, the FAA's "NextGen" will help the airport absorb that higher volume. Also, relying more on satellite airports and planning more flights at night will help.

"Move Sky Harbor to where an airport should be - on the outskirts of the city."

This is such a funny statement. When Sky Harbor was built, it was on the outskirts of town. So you can see the problem. The outskirts will always expand out to meet the airport. So, in your scenerio, every 20 or so years, we'll be spending billions to move the airport further and further away, just to keep it on the outskirts.
Your idea to move it to Casa Grande has several problems: a) Casa Grande is larger than you think it is, b) those on the west side will have to drive 1-2 hours to get to the airport (depending on where they live and traffic), which is a stupid amount of time, c) those in Casa Grande might not want it, d) there may not be enough land available far enough away from the hills in the apprpriate directions that take into account typical winds.

The fact is, you just don't want the airplanes flying over you. "They can fly over whoever else, as long as they're not near me!" You think you are special. You think you are more important than everyone else.
Thankfully, you're not.

The airport was there first. If you don't like the noise then you should relocate to where the airplanes aren't. The rest of us shouldn't be inconvenienced because of your poor choice.

[Tanque Verde]

At least Skyharbor shuts down at night ( departures ) so nearby residents can get some sleep.

As for size, I do believe Skyharbor was rated 9th busiest airport as far back as the 1960's and 1970's so it's been a big airport for a very long time.

[Bummer]

Originally Posted by Tanque Verde

At least Skyharbor shuts down at night ( departures ) so nearby residents can get some sleep.

As for size, I do believe Skyharbor was rated 9th busiest airport as far back as the 1960's and 1970's so it's been a big airport for a very long time.

Very valid points, Tanque!

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Ritchie_az

"It is not like living next to a railroad track yada, yada."

But it is. Didn't you move to Phoenix in the 1970's? The airport was there. If you didn't have the foresight to see a growing city and a growing need for an expanded airport, that's on you for being short-sighted.
You knew the airport was there, now you are complaining about the noise. Sad.

"Sky Harbor is a bad citizen."

Says you. I believe Sky Harbor is a top-notch airport, and Phoenix is very fortunate to have it centrally located. I don't see how you can say Sky Harbor is a "bad citizen."

"and interferes with downtown development."

Oh, I see, your precious downtown. Why can't you live within the dynamics you have? Why this need to change the dynamics just to satisfy you?

"In time, a jet is going to crash into ASU or a dense housing area or downtown Phoenix."

Maybe, there is a very small chance of that. But a truck or train with hazardous cargo could blow up in downtown, too. Should we move the freeways and railroad lines?

"If you were planning the city now, would you in your wildest imagination put a major international airport where Sky Harbor is?"

Why not? Not many cities have the luxury of a centrally located airport. I think if there was one change, the city planners would likely acquire more land around the airport.

"It's only going to get worse with more flights"

Well, supposedly, the FAA's "NextGen" will help the airport absorb that higher volume. Also, relying more on satellite airports and planning more flights at night will help.

"Move Sky Harbor to where an airport should be - on the outskirts of the city."

This is such a funny statement. When Sky Harbor was built, it was on the outskirts of town. So you can see the problem. The outskirts will always expand out to meet the airport. So, in your scenerio, every 20 or so years, we'll be spending billions to move the airport further and further away, just to keep it on the outskirts.
Your idea to move it to Casa Grande has several problems: a) Casa Grande is larger than you think it is, b) those on the west side will have to drive 1-2 hours to get to the airport (depending on where they live and traffic), which is a stupid amount of time, c) those in Casa Grande might not want it, d) there may not be enough land available far enough away from the hills in the apprpriate directions that take into account typical winds.

The fact is, you just don't want the airplanes flying over you. "They can fly over whoever else, as long as they're not near me!" You think you are special. You think you are more important than everyone else.
Thankfully, you're not.

The airport was there first. If you don't like the noise then you should relocate to where the airplanes aren't. The rest of us shouldn't be inconvenienced because of your poor choice.

What a petty little post that was with all questioning of my motives. I have no dog in the fight - no personal interest beyond seeing intelligent growth. Airplanes don't fly anywhere near me. My concerns reflect plain common sense and sound reasoning. Yours, on the other hand, suggest narrow self-interest. SH should be moved. You are right that we should have anticipated that the city would grow around and crowd the airport. The solution is not to put up with it, though, to risk people's lives, destroy some of the best land in the valley with noise and hazard corridors, and insult the poor residents and owners who have to put up with this overgrown monstrosity. It should have been relocated years ago in anticipation of the growth. For the last time, Sky Harbor is a hazard and a nuisance. End of story.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Ritchie_az

As someone who is in an aviation business,

I thought so...

[Tanque Verde]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

It should have been relocated years ago in anticipation of the growth. For the last time, Sky Harbor is a hazard and a nuisance. End of story.

Yeah but I thought we all agreed that building bridges to nowhere is a waste of tax dollars.

[motormaker]

Originally Posted by Greatday

Mesa Gateway has become the home of a number of F-14 Tomcats (privately owned) and other military style aircraft.

I didn't think the government was allowed to sell aircraft with modern FADEC (electronically controlled combustion) be sold second hand, much less exported.

This means F-16/F-18/F-14/F-15 etc will not be available second hand.

[Ritchie_az]

"I thought so..."

OK, so since I have experince in the field and you don't your arguements are "common sense" and "sound" and mine are "narrow" and "self-serving"? Ridiculous.

Here's something to think about: if Sky Harbor closed, many businessmen would pull out of downtown. Executives and businessmen who constantly travel would move somewhere that is nearby a good airport. You would see a negative economic impact on downtown Phoenix very quickly. Is that what you want?

[Cyborg13]

I wanted to address the threat of a plane crash specificly. If an aircraft contacts Phoenix approach in distress, they will not even be routed to Sky Harbor. Too much going on there, plus the potential exists that it will hit the ground outside of airport property. They will be routed to Goodyear, Scottsdale, or Williams Gateway (depending on where they are coming from). All three of those airports are far less congested, farther from major population centers, and have runways longs enough to accomodate any aircraft. So that point is moot.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Cyborg13

I wanted to address the threat of a plane crash specificly. If an aircraft contacts Phoenix approach in distress, they will not even be routed to Sky Harbor. Too much going on there, plus the potential exists that it will hit the ground outside of airport property. They will be routed to Goodyear, Scottsdale, or Williams Gateway (depending on where they are coming from). All three of those airports are far less congested, farther from major population centers, and have runways longs enough to accomodate any aircraft. So that point is moot.

That is nonsense. Planes crash on take off and landings, overrun runways all the time. Plane hits birds (happens all the time), looses power, and they are told, "Well, go on over to Gateway to land. If that were the case then Phoenix would not have to buy all the "crash space " . The safety risk is unacceptably high.