AZ liveable after the Climate-change? (Winkelman: house, gated, taxes)

[Winkelman]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

I don't agree with those who claim that "global warming" is nonsense. Global climatic impacts from release of CO2 are scientific fact and it is just plain ignorant to argue otherwise. What I objected to in my post is putting much faith in computer models to predict the outcome in such detail as "AZ will be hotter - another place drier". I think most of these models are little more than junk science that keeps grad students busy and their profs in the press. Having said that, you can't just keep peeing in the bathtub. There will be repercussions from our flagrant abuse of the planet, but the manner and extent of Mother Nature's revenge is not known yet.

No it is not fact. On top of that it is debatable whether there has been any warming for the past 11 years. According to MIT Professor Ritchard Lindzen, there has been no warming since 1997 and no statistically significant warming since 1995:

A note from Richard Lindzen on statistically significant warming « Watts Up With That?

Richard S. Lindzen is a Professor of Atmospheric Sciences at MIT.

The bigger question is, which climate change are we talking about, the 25 years of warming weather or the recent shift to cooler weather? Either way Arizona will be just fine.

[jaada]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

I don't agree with those who claim that "global warming" is nonsense. Global climatic impacts from release of CO2 are scientific fact and it is just plain ignorant to argue otherwise. What I objected to in my post is putting much faith in computer models to predict the outcome in such detail as "AZ will be hotter - another place drier". I think most of these models are little more than junk science that keeps grad students busy and their profs in the press. Having said that, you can't just keep peeing in the bathtub. There will be repercussions from our flagrant abuse of the planet, but the manner and extent of Mother Nature's revenge is not known yet.

i agree with you ponderosa, global warming is not bs its fact. why are the ice caps melting at an alarming rate? why are so many species becoming extinct. storms are stronger than before. the weather has changed so much even in my time. its very odd.

[jaada]

Originally Posted by Winkelman

No it is not fact. On top of that it is debatable whether there has been any warming for the past 11 years. According to MIT Professor Ritchard Lindzen, there has been no warming since 1997 and no statistically significant warming since 1995:

A note from Richard Lindzen on statistically significant warming « Watts Up With That?

Richard S. Lindzen is a Professor of Atmospheric Sciences at MIT.

The bigger question is, which climate change are we talking about, the 25 years of warming weather or the recent shift to cooler weather? Either way Arizona will be just fine.

az wont be fine if the poles shift as is another theory.

[LittleDolphin]

Just read a book that talked about climate change..my understanding from the book is that "Global Warming" is a terribly confusing and incorrect name for the Climate Change we're seeing--a better name would be "Global Weather Weirding"..as it means some places will get hotter (like Europe did during the last few summers where thousands died from the extreme heat), while other places will get colder, some will get lots more snow and rain, some areas will have horrendous droughts (Australia and other places) and some locations will get more flooding--like Iowa and Ohio and parts of Asia last year, and there will be more typhoons, and other weather extremes...

The book explained a lot to me (Hot, Flat and Crowded), so I no longer think of Climate Change as Global Warming, but now will understand when I see new weather records being set for hottest, coldest, most snow/rain, longest droughts, incredible floods, that it's Global Weather Weirding taking place...

Watch, too, and see what kind of weird weather is taking place in your neck of the woods and hope our nation takes decisive action very soon, because it's real, terribly real....

[CleanCutHippie]

They say at some point in the future even NY will be a sub-tropical climate. With or w/out Global warming the earth is always changing. I do strongly believe in Global Warming but even if there was no such thing the earth would change but perhaps at a slower rate. The earth changes despite us almighty humans being here....THE NERVE!

[Winkelman]

Originally Posted by LittleDolphin

Just read a book that talked about climate change..my understanding from the book is that "Global Warming" is a terribly confusing and incorrect name for the Climate Change we're seeing--a better name would be "Global Weather Weirding"..as it means some places will get hotter (like Europe did during the last few summers where thousands died from the extreme heat), while other places will get colder, some will get lots more snow and rain, some areas will have horrendous droughts (Australia and other places) and some locations will get more flooding--like Iowa and Ohio and parts of Asia last year, and there will be more typhoons, and other weather extremes...

The book explained a lot to me (Hot, Flat and Crowded), so I no longer think of Climate Change as Global Warming, but now will understand when I see new weather records being set for hottest, coldest, most snow/rain, longest droughts, incredible floods, that it's Global Weather Weirding taking place...

Watch, too, and see what kind of weird weather is taking place in your neck of the woods and hope our nation takes decisive action very soon, because it's real, terribly real....

You read a book, so therefore that book must be accurate?

Some places someplace on earth have had and will have the weather events you described on any given year. That proves nothing.

No statistically significant warming since 1998, and widespread cooling in the past two years.

Twice as many Americans die from extreme cold then from extreme heat. In fact extreme cold is the leading cause of a death from a weather related event.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/1...-extreme-cold/

[Winkelman]

Originally Posted by jaada

az wont be fine if the poles shift as is another theory.

Are you serious? On top of that the Web Bots and Mayans also say we are doomed. LOL

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by Winkelman

Are you serious? On top of that the Web Bots and Mayans also say we are doomed. LOL

Frankly; I put little stock in either the Christian Bible or the Mayan calender when it comes to predicting the future.

The Bible seemed to be reasonably accurate where the Middle East was concerned and the Mayan device would apply to Central America.

Hell: the massive fires quoted in the Bible may have indeed applied to the 727 odd oil well fires that Saddam lit off in Kuwait back in 1991---------to a peasants point of view--------they indeed would have qualified as Armageddon.

Just that the 'Joker in the Deck' was Red Adair and his crews..............

As for the Mayan calendar; again, the Joker in the Deck would have been Columbus then Cortez.

[Winkelman]

Originally Posted by ArizonaBear

Frankly; I put little stock in either the Christian Bible or the Mayan calender when it comes to predicting the future.

The Bible seemed to be reasonably accurate where the Middle East was concerned and the Mayan device would apply to Central America.

Hell: the massive fires quoted in the Bible may have indeed applied to the 727 odd oil well fires that Saddam lit off in Kuwait back in 1991---------to a peasants point of view--------they indeed would have qualified as Armageddon.

Just that the 'Joker in the Deck' was Red Adair and his crews..............

As for the Mayan calendar; again, the Joker in the Deck would have been Columbus then Cortez.

I can predict that in the next 100 years a great object will rise and then fall from the sky. One could then take any number of events and call my prediction prophetic. Total nonsense.

The Mayans could stop their own demise so why take them seriously.

I do predict this; If global temps continue to drop and global warming stops being relevant, something else will come along to replace it. It will seem just as urgent, critical to the planet and of course just as expensive.

[LittleDolphin]

Well, we posters seem statistically divided on this topic...as is the general populace.

Guess we'll each go our merry way, some of us supporting making changes to renewable energy and others dis-believing we're in the midst of rapid climate change that's never before been seen in such a short period of time, with a rise in ocean temperatures and record-breaking weather events on all fronts and for different locations...these people will opt for business as usual. But what if their belief is proven wrong--and it's too late to act??

My question to dis-believers is :What's the harm of moving toward renewable energy and taking a leadership role in this?" We've exported our current American Dream lifestyle around the globe, why cannot we now set an example of a sustainable lifestyle for others to emulate--and create lots of new jobs in green technology and manufacturing along the way?

Why should we as a nation, be beholden to buying petro-chemicals from some countries that are becoming more and more American-hating--our oil dollars are funding their ability to create terrorist acts.

I say let's become independent from the need to buy from them...to me, it doesn't come down to who is right, and who is wrong. Frankly, I'd love to be wrong. But it's time to change in either case--anyone who's ever lived in a large city can attest to the stinking bad air and yellow smog that envelops cities..and China? They're choking on their pollution, they'll be coming aboard on this before long...they already have 4 million electric scooters they plug in at night...do we want to lose the economic race to them on the sustainable energy front, too?