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Old 06-28-2010, 07:59 AM
 
Location: In an alternate universe according to some, AKA Aspergers
10,681 posts, read 11,794,378 times
Reputation: 5173

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I've been thinking about this and still come back to my assertion that it should be legalized like tobbacco is and run the same way. You don't see killings over tobbacco even though it's a waaaaaaaay more addictive substance than pot is (or most anything else for that matter). The only time you see a black market for ciggs or violence is when the GOVERNMENT jacks up their fees via high taxes in some states (NY comes to mind).

Let the cigg companies market it and then tax it per pack with the tax fees set by the feds nation wide so there is NO varience from state to state.

After the first few months of WAAAAAAAAAAAhooooooooooooo it's legal it'd settle down. Keep the penalties for being under the influence in the wrong places, just like booze, regulate where you can smoke it just like ciggs (second hand smoke is still second hand smoke right?) and add a penalty for smoking around minors like aiding to the delequency of a minor since you CAN get a contact high.
Drop the farce of medical cards since we all know they're not worth the paper they're written on.
Keep the penalty for minors caught with it just like booze and maybe as part of the penalty force a drug education/deversion class for first time offenders.
Personally I'd prefer no one be introduced to it, as I wish no one was introduced to booze (I've met a few teen alchoholics and it ain't pretty) but that's living in a fantasy world as people will do what they will do and you can't protect 'em from themselves. Take the tax from the sales and funnel some of it back into rehab costs for booze/pot addicts, might as well make the users pay for any clean up right?
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Old 06-28-2010, 09:56 AM
 
Location: San Jose, CA
6,356 posts, read 10,565,021 times
Reputation: 7597
I think you have an excellent formula there, Jimj.
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:20 AM
 
18 posts, read 12,437 times
Reputation: 23
Jimj.....Thats been workin in the netherlands for years now. good plan to base our laws on.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:01 PM
 
54 posts, read 52,741 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by saffordpastor View Post
Speaking of childish....I do believe that the most childish thing going on here is a lot of childish adults trying to use science and some folks unfortunate medical conditions as an excuse to get high.

I really couldn't care less if y'all want to burn up your brain cells with MJ, alcohol, or some other mind altering substance....just if you get in a car and drive while doing it, or commit a crime under the influence, I sincerely ...and I say this in Christian love...hope they throw your tail in jail until you rot.

I have little sympathy for folks who do such.

I think you folks just need to man up....and quit trying to justify your desire to get high by building a straw man of medical MJ....the % of folks who really need it is small....and it can be taken without smoking it.

I am not against the legitimate use of MJ...if it is truly used as a medicine...fine,...but most of the folks who want it just want it to fly high....c'mon just admit it.
allow me to back peddle .... slightly... i agree that there are a significant percentage of medical marijuana users and legalization proponents that just want to work the system so they can get high legally. i also agree that those that commit crimes, drive high, and influence minors should pay a significant price. however, i do feel that anyone that does any of those bad things deserves help, support, guidance, and yes Pastor, maybe even sympathy!....i may not believe in god but i believe in many things that are said in the bible (no i can't quote them but the concept is the same). people that follow the wrong path should be helped to learn a better way. for someone who CLAIMS to be a man of god to not see that ...... STRONGLY reinforces my feelings about religion. does anyone here know if this supposed pastor is for real?????
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:31 PM
 
Location: AZ
1,046 posts, read 2,085,277 times
Reputation: 646
Quote:
Originally Posted by saffordpastor View Post
Speaking of childish....I do believe that the most childish thing going on here is a lot of childish adults trying to use science and some folks unfortunate medical conditions as an excuse to get high.
Hello! So science means nothing to you? You do know the definition of science, right?
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Old 06-30-2010, 11:28 PM
 
785 posts, read 1,125,540 times
Reputation: 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcaz1957 View Post
allow me to back peddle .... slightly... i agree that there are a significant percentage of medical marijuana users and legalization proponents that just want to work the system so they can get high legally. i also agree that those that commit crimes, drive high, and influence minors should pay a significant price. however, i do feel that anyone that does any of those bad things deserves help, support, guidance, and yes Pastor, maybe even sympathy!....i may not believe in god but i believe in many things that are said in the bible (no i can't quote them but the concept is the same). people that follow the wrong path should be helped to learn a better way. for someone who CLAIMS to be a man of god to not see that ...... STRONGLY reinforces my feelings about religion. does anyone here know if this supposed pastor is for real?????
If you knew me you would know that I have spent much of my life dealing with and helping folks in trouble....and that I am for real...in fact just got home from teaching the Wed. night Bible study at the church I pastor...taught on those that the god of this world has blinded...and our need to lead them to the Light of Gods glorious Gospel.

And I have also seen too many who have abused drugs and then made life hell for someone else....abused wives and kids, lives destroyed by drunk or drug abusing drivers, violent crimes committed while under the influence....and then they blame it on their "condition"...I believe they need help, and I am more than willing to do what I can to help them find God and personal redemption...

In fact I have spent years ministering in jails and prisons, being an advocate for folks, literally going to bat for men in the judges chambers, teaching substance abuse classes, counseling families in crisis, literally being on the front lines in the battle, helping families and individuals get out of that stuff..etc.
Can you say you have done that???

However this does not take away from the fact that there comes a time when grown up men and women need to be held accountable for their actions....and if they choose to do drugs, or drink, and then they kill or hurt someone in a crime or while driving....again i say throw them in jail until they rot...our society has spent too much time mollycoddling these overgrown children already....this is part of the reason we have sunk to the depths we are in....no sense of shame, no accountability, just a victim mentality that never takes responsibility.

I will admit that saying "Throw them in jail until they rot" comes across as crass....but there are those who simply have shown that they have no business on the streets of a civilized society...and they need to be incarcerated for a long time for the sake of the common good.
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Old 06-30-2010, 11:30 PM
 
785 posts, read 1,125,540 times
Reputation: 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by roundball View Post
Hello! So science means nothing to you? You do know the definition of science, right?
Please enlighten me O Great One...
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Old 06-30-2010, 11:41 PM
 
54 posts, read 52,741 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by saffordpastor View Post
If you knew me you would know that I have spent much of my life dealing with and helping folks in trouble....and that I am for real...in fact just got home from teaching the Wed. night Bible study at the church I pastor...taught on those that the god of this world has blinded...and our need to lead them to the Light of Gods glorious Gospel.

And I have also seen too many who have abused drugs and then made life hell for someone else....abused wives and kids, lives destroyed by drunk or drug abusing drivers, violent crimes committed while under the influence....and then they blame it on their "condition"...I believe they need help, and I am more than willing to do what I can to help them find God and personal redemption...

In fact I have spent years ministering in jails and prisons, being an advocate for folks, literally going to bat for men in the judges chambers, teaching substance abuse classes, counseling families in crisis, literally being on the front lines in the battle, helping families and individuals get out of that stuff..etc.
Can you say you have done that???

However this does not take away from the fact that there comes a time when grown up men and women need to be held accountable for their actions....and if they choose to do drugs, or drink, and then they kill or hurt someone in a crime or while driving....again i say throw them in jail until they rot...our society has spent too much time mollycoddling these overgrown children already....this is part of the reason we have sunk to the depths we are in....no sense of shame, no accountability, just a victim mentality that never takes responsibility.

I will admit that saying "Throw them in jail until they rot" comes across as crass....but there are those who simply have shown that they have no business on the streets of a civilized society...and they need to be incarcerated for a long time for the sake of the common good.
now you're talkin like a pastor. and no i haven't don't all that but saving people isn't my line of work either..... i hear what you are saying, and have an idea of the frustration you have encountered with repeat offenders. perhaps our differences of opinion are not so big
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Old 06-30-2010, 11:46 PM
 
785 posts, read 1,125,540 times
Reputation: 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcaz1957 View Post
now you're talkin like a pastor. and no i haven't don't all that but saving people isn't my line of work either..... i hear what you are saying, and have an idea of the frustration you have encountered with repeat offenders. perhaps our differences of opinion are not so big

Probably not...

And may God Bless you.
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Old 07-01-2010, 07:39 AM
 
Location: In an alternate universe according to some, AKA Aspergers
10,681 posts, read 11,794,378 times
Reputation: 5173
Quote:
Originally Posted by saffordpastor View Post
If you knew me you would know that I have spent much of my life dealing with and helping folks in trouble....and that I am for real...in fact just got home from teaching the Wed. night Bible study at the church I pastor...taught on those that the god of this world has blinded...and our need to lead them to the Light of Gods glorious Gospel.

And I have also seen too many who have abused drugs and then made life hell for someone else....abused wives and kids, lives destroyed by drunk or drug abusing drivers, violent crimes committed while under the influence....and then they blame it on their "condition"...I believe they need help, and I am more than willing to do what I can to help them find God and personal redemption...

In fact I have spent years ministering in jails and prisons, being an advocate for folks, literally going to bat for men in the judges chambers, teaching substance abuse classes, counseling families in crisis, literally being on the front lines in the battle, helping families and individuals get out of that stuff..etc.
Can you say you have done that???

However this does not take away from the fact that there comes a time when grown up men and women need to be held accountable for their actions....and if they choose to do drugs, or drink, and then they kill or hurt someone in a crime or while driving....again i say throw them in jail until they rot...our society has spent too much time mollycoddling these overgrown children already....this is part of the reason we have sunk to the depths we are in....no sense of shame, no accountability, just a victim mentality that never takes responsibility.

I will admit that saying "Throw them in jail until they rot" comes across as crass....but there are those who simply have shown that they have no business on the streets of a civilized society...and they need to be incarcerated for a long time for the sake of the common good.
The bottom line in my opinion is BOTH books control life on this planet, if showing 'em the bible doesn't work then maybe they need a whack upside the head with the penal code.
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