Arizona passes strict illegal immigration act (Williams: renting, firms, paycheck)

[Bummer]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

I doubt too many states are going to follow AZ's lead on SB 1070 style legislation after the economic beating the state is taking for passing it. The law is mostly show - it won't be enforced anymore than the e-verify law is - and is going to cost the state dearly in lost revenues and business.

Need to disagree on this point, Ponderosa.

The LOPSIDED Media is only reporting the "threaten" boycotts while never mentioning the MILLIONS that will be saved on the ridiculous costs associated with the illegals.

What about the people who are willing to visit Arizona in support of SB1070? Are we able to put a cost savings on the reduction in crime? What about the rewards of a safer environment? Is there a value associated with improved education for the legal citizens?

These are all extremely important figures / statistics that are very difficult to calculate.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Bummer

Need to disagree on this point, Ponderosa.

The LOPSIDED Media is only reporting the "threaten" boycotts while never mentioning the MILLIONS that will be saved on the ridiculous costs associated with the illegals.

What about the people who are willing to visit Arizona in support of SB1070? Are we able to put a cost savings on the reduction in crime? What about the rewards of a safer environment? Is there a value associated with improved education for the legal citizens?

These are all extremely important figures / statistics that are very difficult to calculate.

I don't think anything is going to be "saved". None of the good you foresee will ever come to pass. It is just wishful thinking. The courts will delay it with injunctions and the appeals will drag on for years. Even if it is eventually given the green light, there will be no serious enforcement. And by then there may be federal action on immigration that negates it. The ONLY way to stop illegal immigration is to stop illegal hiring. As long as there is a demand there will be a never-ending supply. And as long as the politicians are owned by businesses big and small there will be demand.

No other state than AZ would have been dumb enough to take the point on this, and aside from cheering from the sidelines, no other state is going to join in after the boycott reaction that it got.

[whitem3]

Originally Posted by Bummer

Need to disagree on this point, Ponderosa.

The LOPSIDED Media is only reporting the "threaten" boycotts while never mentioning the MILLIONS that will be saved on the ridiculous costs associated with the illegals.

What about the people who are willing to visit Arizona in support of SB1070? Are we able to put a cost savings on the reduction in crime? What about the rewards of a safer environment? Is there a value associated with improved education for the legal citizens?

These are all extremely important figures / statistics that are very difficult to calculate.

Let me help you out here Bummer with some numbers. I believe this is 2004 data so I can only imagine the numbers are much larger today.

The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR): The Costs of Illegal Immigration to Arizonans: Executive Summary

[Boompa]

Under the new law Pollice are required to nprosecute each illegal as a Crime. So each gets his Miranda Rights and an attorney. They can not make bail because they are not here legally, but eventyually they will get a hearing. I could see this brining the system to a halt.

[SoldierBoyBliss]

Really.

There are several other states who are following AZ example and Virgina had a law already on the books. So maybe know, before you speak.

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

No other state than AZ would have been dumb enough to take the point on this, and aside from cheering from the sidelines, no other state is going to join in after the boycott reaction that it got.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by SoldierBoyBliss

Really.

There are several other states who are following AZ example and Virgina had a law already on the books. So maybe know, before you speak.

Yeah, right. Talk is cheap. Let's see who actually PASSES a law.

[mauiwowie]

Originally Posted by whitem3

Let me help you out here Bummer with some numbers. I believe this is 2004 data so I can only imagine the numbers are much larger today.

The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR): The Costs of Illegal Immigration to Arizonans: Executive Summary

That's from a partisan group. There are conflicting analyses on whether there is a net cost or net benefit. We don't really know because all are partisan.

[mauiwowie]

Originally Posted by SoldierBoyBliss

Really.

There are several other states who are following AZ example and Virgina had a law already on the books. So maybe know, before you speak.

The local jurisdictions in VA are just cooperating with Federal officials pursuant to INA Sec 287(g). It is not the same as SB 1070.

[Bummer]

Originally Posted by whitem3

Let me help you out here Bummer with some numbers. I believe this is 2004 data so I can only imagine the numbers are much larger today.

Trying to ruin my beautiful Sunday afternoon, Whitem?

! ! ! ! ! !

[Tama]

Originally Posted by jimj

In the tech field which is what I'm familiar with those "educated specialists" you talk about (IE: H1B visa) were/are the bain of our existence. I've seen many qualified people passed over or jobs not even going "open" because they got an H1B from India/Pakistan cheaper. Years ago companies were complaining they couldn't get enough tech people but from my experience that wasn't really the case. To increase the bottom line they wanted one person to do 4 persons jobs for minimal pay increase if there was one at all. Now they could hire an H1B with no benefits,no retirement, less pay and I believe no taxes since they're foriegn plus and this is a biggie, they could boot 'em whenever they wanted without possible legal issues not to mention if you lay off a ton of 'em it doesn't make the news nor does it show that you had a mass layoff so your stock doesn't drop.

On another front, where I'm from the unemployment rate is around 11%. Now there is a ski resort that for the last 2-3 years has been staffed with a majority of H1B's mostly from South Amercia. Now are you telling me that these "specialists" from South America know how to run a lift, groom snow etc better than the locals? Heck most don't even speak english. This country has a huge unemployment problem and the last thing we need is to import people to fill jobs.
It isn't that the skilled people aren't here or couldn't be trained here, it's about how cheap they can get 'em elsewhere. Eventually the pay for the jobs gets so low due to cheap labor that it doesn't pay for a citizen to go to school and work it.
Just look at the chicken processor plants, but that's another long story...

Ski operations are not the "specialized" areas I am referring to. There are highly educated and skilled people in our graduate schools who have extraordinary talent in cutting edge fields whose expertise is needed. They are denied visas.The brain drain is going the other way now.

It has nothing to do with importing to take away jobs. We cannot "home grow" enough of these people. Look at the doctoral candidates in our best universities. In many cases the majority are foreign-born. (Perhaps too many of our kids are tweeting themselves into oblivion??) They are heading to other countries with the education our graduate schools have provided. These are the people we need to keep here.