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Old 05-22-2010, 08:35 PM
 
10,481 posts, read 14,715,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Towner View Post
Don't you carry ID on you when you drive a car?
Of course, but I do not if I am going for a walk or when I ride the bus. I also will admit I am really absent minded. I have lost my driver's license too many times to count so there are times when I have no id (even when I drive). I also forget to take my id with me some times. Regardless, I have never been arrested for it, and yes, I have been pulled over with no id. This law could change that.

 
Old 05-22-2010, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Anchored in Phoenix
1,781 posts, read 2,360,852 times
Reputation: 1345
Well I think the big businesses that are in Arizona are not going to leave on account of 1070. Raytheon, Honeywell, General Dynamics, Lockheed, Intel, Motorola, Orbital Sciences, Phelps Dodge, Southern Copper, Dial, Boeing, and so on. First of all, it's much less expensive to operate in Arizona rather than California. Secondly, there is a highly educated workforce to attract employees, some of them ASU or UA or NAU graduates and some from universities out of state. Many people want to move to Arizona too, independent of 1070. I know engineers who are sick of California's taxes and social engineering who are interested in Arizona.

I think it's funny you even bring up the consideration that Mexico will steal Arizona back. Maybe you are extrapolating a passive public (the majority of Arizonans), but I don't think Arizonans are passive anymore. I know it's almost a cliche, but I'll use the "sleeping giant" idea. In case you haven't noticed, more and more people are complaining - the big corporate bailouts - TARP, the health care takeover by Obama, and now in Arizona the people had enough of illegal aliens. There is a common theme through it all - a federal government that does not care what the grassroots is saying, but will bulldoze over the grassroots.

I even see complaining a lot more in California. I was watching a parade recently in the Los Angeles area and stood near a lady with a sign. One side of it supported the theme of the parade. The other side said "the larger the government the smaller the people," something like that. Every public event I go to I see protests against big government, "Don't tread on me" flags, and so forth. And that's in Los Angeles. Occasionally I see spontaneous protests against big government and I have to mentally ask myself - is this a federal holiday or something?

Take Harry Mitchell, for example. My congressman. I wrote him several times against bailouts and against ObamaCare. But he acted as if what I said did not count. Jan Brewer lit another spark to get us going. The next big issue of federal government ignoring the state is going to be the catalyst for some big disobedience event and it's going to be for the good.

Arizona cannot go backward on this issue of illegal aliens and give into the feds. It's too late. The law abiding tax paying Arizona had enough and wont' take it anymore.
 
Old 05-22-2010, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Tempe, AZ
41 posts, read 76,966 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Towner View Post
Don't you carry ID on you when you drive a car?
You are required to have a license to operate the vehicle. This is the same as a business needing a license to sell liquor (which must be publicly displayed) or an Arizona citizen needing a permit to carry a concealed weapon (I am not sure on the specifics of that, but I assume it must be on you when carrying?). Last I checked you didn't need a license to walk to the grocery store and buy milk.

If we had a national ID system this would be a different case. But interestingly enough, those who do not support national IDs generally support this law. It seems pretty selective to me - require anyone who appears Hispanic to carry ID, but those people who would never be affected by this law (white or black people) would be exempt. If that isn't racist, I don't know what is.
 
Old 05-22-2010, 08:46 PM
 
Location: 38,000 feet
2,726 posts, read 2,458,128 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by las vegas drunk View Post
I would like to add this as this is how I feel. Arizona, or any other state for that matter, has no right to require everyone to carry ID with them. That alone is unconstitutional. The police also have no authority to ask for proof of citizenship. However, this is what I would propose. If someone is arrested for a crime and it is found out through booking that the person is an illegal alien, I would favor immediate deportation. This would have the same effect as SB 1070 WITHOUT infringing on anyone's constitutional rights.
Darlin' - we DO have to have ID when we travel in another country. We DO have to have ID when we drive a vehicle. We DO have to have ID when we cross into another country. WE DO have to be able to prove citizenship - all of us - if asked. This has been on the FEDERAL books for 70 years. That's what we all keep saying. This bill was patterned after the Federal Law that was put in place in 1940. Sorry.

And really - do you think there is NO profiling going on? Ever? Give me a break. It's like i said in an earlier post - everyone of us profiles. Humans have a portion of their brain called the Reticular Activating System. It's a protective mechanism that's hardwired into our Autonomic nervous system. It's how we sense danger in others and in situations.

Cops have a highly developed sense of this based on experience. They really (except maybe Joe) aren't pulling people over for "driving while brown." But they ARE looking for gang colors, gang signs, known cartel members, known extremists and terrorists, prison mannerisms, tats that identify certain gangs. M13 is not to be trifled with. Those guys make the Khmer Rouge look like wusses. I won't outline the horrific crimes they commit - you can do your own research. Their graffiti has been spotted in AZ. Do I want my police department to have "permission" to spot these guys and pull them over? Damn Straight.

The greatest problem most Americans have in grasping this is that we live in relative peace. Most of us haven't been through a war. Most don't have a clue what the rest of the world puts up with on a daily basis. We want to believe that if all we do is hold hands and sing Kumbaya the whole world will get along. There are creeps and thugs and criminals who bank on that naivete. Before 9/11 I was probably that naive. I've seen too much, heard too much, and when the sweetest and most helpful guy was shot in the back by someone crossing his ranch, all bets were off for me.

This ain't Mayberry anymore. This bill gives the police the right to do the job the Feds have failed to do. If this were on your border, you'd have a different take on it.

And for the record - a naturalized citizen from Mexico agrees with me:
VIDEO: A Citizen Speaks at the Tucson City Council Meeting Mayrant&rave
 
Old 05-22-2010, 08:58 PM
 
Location: 38,000 feet
2,726 posts, read 2,458,128 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDnurse View Post
True.

The law, if enforced properly, can help in getting some illegal aliens off the streets. It's a good start, but I find it insufficient.

I have some questions for you, if you don't mind.

I happen to know that there are a lot of illegal aliens, not just Mexicans, with bogus documents. There are people who manufacture fraudulent documents such as birth certificates, social security cards, baptismal records, green cards, etc. You name it. If there is a demand, some entrepreneur will supply. Some employers provide these to working crews of illegals. What can the state do to catch these folks?.
This law is intended for them, too. That's why all the screaming about racism towards Mexicans is so frustrating. As i keep saying - just because you and I don't know what to look for doesn't mean our cops don't. They get intel on certain mobs and gangs, they have informers, they know what they are looking for. They aren't willy-nilly driving around and pulling people over just cuz they feel like it. Our police force is too small to do that.

Quote:
I haven't been in AZ in a while. Whatever happened to the laws that punished employers for hiring illegal aliens? Has the state been enforcing that law? .
Yes - pretty regularly. We hear of about a bust a week of employers who are still hiring illegals. I heard recently of one where all the illegals were from Serbia or Russia. So - it's not just Mexicans.

Quote:
I know that a lot of people oppose a national ID, but it seems to me, that if you really want to be thorough, we're going to have to get a national ID. I personally carry at least 4 forms of photo ID with me at all times. I can forget to take the cell phone with me, but I always carry my IDs. What are the chances for a national ID in your opinion.
For all intents and purposes, the Social Security number has already done that. Even though the old cards said it couldn't be used that way - it has already happened. Most people NEED an ID to get anything done - install a phone, set up electricity, rent a house, drive a car, use a credit card (if asked), get on a plane. I think it's a foregone conclusion... they just don't call it that.
 
Old 05-22-2010, 09:02 PM
 
Location: 38,000 feet
2,726 posts, read 2,458,128 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by altus2006 View Post
With the vast majority of citizens supporting this bill nationwide, I was hoping more groups would come here to support Arizona.

So many other states have the same issues and can relate to us and our need for help.

altus2006

I just heard from an airline employee that every flight into AZ has been full. And a friend of mine said he wanted to rent a hotel conference room for a last minute meeting and they were all booked up. This could turn out to be good for the state!
 
Old 05-22-2010, 09:07 PM
 
14 posts, read 15,740 times
Reputation: 28
Well I think the big businesses that are in Arizona are not going to leave on account of 1070. Raytheon, Honeywell, General Dynamics, Lockheed, Intel, Motorola, Orbital Sciences, Phelps Dodge, Southern Copper, Dial, Boeing, and so on. First of all, it's much less expensive to operate in Arizona rather than California. Secondly, there is a highly educated workforce to attract employees, some of them ASU or UA or NAU graduates and some from universities out of state. Many people want to move to Arizona too, independent of 1070. I know engineers who are sick of California's taxes and social engineering who are interested in Arizona.

A highly educated workforce? Everything I've been reading says AZ doesn't have a lot of highly educated people and that this is a major problem for the state economically speaking. Since you obviously know what you're talking about, I'm wondering: is everyone concentrated in certain parts of the state? Do you just not have the liberal arts majors the journalists like to hang out with?

Oh, and this has no relevance to the public good, but: You say they hire a lot of engineers. Any cute nerdettes over there? And if so, where do they hang out?


I think it's funny you even bring up the consideration that Mexico will steal Arizona back. Maybe you are extrapolating a passive public (the majority of Arizonans), but I don't think Arizonans are passive anymore. I know it's almost a cliche, but I'll use the "sleeping giant" idea. In case you haven't noticed, more and more people are complaining - the big corporate bailouts - TARP, the health care takeover by Obama, and now in Arizona the people had enough of illegal aliens. There is a common theme through it all - a federal government that does not care what the grassroots is saying, but will bulldoze over the grassroots.

Actually, here on the East Coast people feel about the corporations the way people over there seem to feel about the government. In case you were wondering what everyone's smoking over here.

More seriously: no, you guys aren't passive, and have a lot of guns. The problem is: if there's a big Mexican-descended population that's loyal to Mexico...well, you can see the problem. If Mexico ever becomes anywhere near America's heft, which is obviously not very likely now. I see it as more of a long-term potential problem rather than anything immediate.

I even see complaining a lot more in California. I was watching a parade recently in the Los Angeles area and stood near a lady with a sign. One side of it supported the theme of the parade. The other side said "the larger the government the smaller the people," something like that. Every public event I go to I see protests against big government, "Don't tread on me" flags, and so forth. And that's in Los Angeles. Occasionally I see spontaneous protests against big government and I have to mentally ask myself - is this a federal holiday or something?
Don't be too surprised. You can definitely find conservatives and libertarians in big cities. I've known quite a few. Plenty of well-off professionals put up with the high taxes, etc. because their family lives there or they like the culture, etc. NYC is one of the biggest fundraising areas for the GOP, even if they never win any elections.

Take Harry Mitchell, for example. My congressman. I wrote him several times against bailouts and against ObamaCare. But he acted as if what I said did not count. Jan Brewer lit another spark to get us going. The next big issue of federal government ignoring the state is going to be the catalyst for some big disobedience event and it's going to be for the good.
I'm just curious...do you actually expect your congressman to pay attention to your letter? If they get 100,000 letters or a nice fat donation, they pay attention, but they don't care about ordinary citizens. (Not that that's a good thing, of course...)

People are obviously pretty pissed. I always laugh reading the NYT coverage where they try to paint the Tea Party guys as being these big racists when by my reading they're mostly upset about the money. Or how the Oath Keepers were this paramilitary threat when all they seem to talk about is refusing illegal orders to fire on US citizens.

Arizona cannot go backward on this issue of illegal aliens and give into the feds. It's too late. The law abiding tax paying Arizona had enough and wont' take it anymore.
Well, good luck. I just don't think you guys can beat the Feds, most people are not willing to take it that far. Remember what happened the last time people tried to secede.
 
Old 05-22-2010, 09:08 PM
 
Location: 38,000 feet
2,726 posts, read 2,458,128 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitem3 View Post
Pearce wrote that he plans to "push for an Arizona bill that would refuse to accept or issue a birth certificate that recognizes citizenship to those born to illegal aliens, unless one parent is a citizen".

Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100521/pl_ynews/ynews_pl2192 - broken link)
This is a humane bill that he's pushing. Think about this - all you lurkers who disagree with our Arizona immigration bill -- Women are swimming the Rio Grande, walking the 120 degree desert, hiking over mountains in the dead of night -- all while being 9 months pregnant. How is that a good thing in anyone's book? They do it so they can have "anchor babies" - because of the 14th amendment, their children are considered legal, so they get to stay in the country. This bill would finally fix that. IMHO it would end some of this northward migration.

The other thing that really really grinds me from a humanitarian point of view -- the hustlers and con men called coyotes who smuggle people over the border. They charge high fees and then essential hold their people hostage until they can get more money from the families. It's horrific. We see this all the time, too. AND -- THIS IS ALSO WHAT THE COPS ARE PROFILING FOR -- they are looking for evidence of these houses. Drop House Awareness, Drop Houses : Safety & Information - Arizona Department of Public Safety
 
Old 05-22-2010, 09:22 PM
 
10,481 posts, read 14,715,367 times
Reputation: 6361
I would also support getting rid of the "anchor baby" clause in the constitution. That would help a lot.
 
Old 05-22-2010, 09:36 PM
 
3 posts, read 3,049 times
Reputation: 10
Has anyone visited the Beautiful Sonora Desert lately? It's turning into one giant garbage dump....All done by illegals heading for Tuson.
I was thrilled to hear about the new law in Arizon. If we can get rid of the dictatorship....maybe we can get the new federal government to do something like; Move our military bases to the border.....Shut down the border.... If we don't, our economy is going to continue to slide.......
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