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twiggy,
i suspect the case will be thrown out as "holds no merit", and here's why. JD claims that sb1070 impedes on fed's ability to do their job..... the only issue is, 1070 is not in affect yet so JD has zero proof of such claims, JD would be speculating.....
Darrell... I agree with you on your assesment.. And I also blame the employer more than the illegal.. I expect the majority of them are working off the books, so no type of tax money reaches the government.. But regardless of who's to blame.. They are HERE, they're using up resources, costing an incredible amount of money, and seriously impacting our crime problem.. And they aren't children .. They KNOW what they are doing.. They KNOW they aren't supposed to be here.. They KNOW they're using a fake ID.. They KNOW they are taking a job at less than a citizen would earn, and that doing so makes them more attractive to the employer than a full paid employee, which gets them hired over the citizen.. They KNOW what they are doing when they manage to sign up for benefits they aren't supposed to get.. They KNOW what they're doing when the manage to sign up to vote .. whether by their own efforts or someone elses.. They KNOW what they're doing when they commit crimes, .. when they drive an uninsured, and often unregistered, vehicle and then run when they have an accident .. when they break into someone's house .. when they rob someone .. the list goes on and on.. (and I know that citizens do the same thing .. but the illegals actions are done by someone who shouldn't even be here - actions that woudn't have been commited if they weren't here).. WHATEVER they may be .. they AREN'T innocents.. They know EXACTLY what they are doing.. And they do it purposely and willingly..
And even for the few that are on the books .. with their fake ID.. Their input wouldn't cover their costs in resources.. Many citizens fall into the same category .. but we HAVE to put up with them .. we shouldn't have to put up with paying for illegals..
As for the "facts" .. The facts don't really need addressing.. They are few and simple.. The illegals are ILLEGAL .. They KNOW they're illegal.. They KNOW what they are doing when they sneak in.. They DO affect our crime rate.. They DO use resources that aren't their's to use.. They DO cost Arizona, and america an incredible amount of money .. NONE of which should be needed to be spent.. They insult legal immigrants by being here, and they insult america by being here.. The only way to discuss the situation is to address the big picture .. because the specifics are undeniable, and speak for themselves.. It's the big picture that needs to be addressed .. and solved.
tiberius
Don't forget, ignorance of the law is not a defense. And yes, they KNOW what they are doing but look how great American is...we don't care!
It's funny that to some, Phoenix being the kidnapping capital of the world, second only to much larger Mexico City wasn't any embarassment. Apparently it's fine for people to be tortured and held for ransom, that's politically correct. Just don't question illegals about their status.
Too bad this law won't do anything to stop that action isn't it. Most of the Cartel in AZ are infused American gangs, and legal criminals. The ones getting kidnapped are the illegal ones, that should only of been helping AZ with it's agenda.
What, do you think we will do, deport them before they get kidnapped? ha ha I doubt it. What we needed to be working on is the drugs and weapons. It would have been more effective to up the drug force and stop making it so damn easy to sell and buy weapons in our state. But, since I believe it's not about the crime, then it makes more sense. No doubt in my mind there is a different agenda here. We weren't doing anything about the crime before and we won't be doing it after.
People love their drugs here and love their guns, I don't see this law changing that. But, this is just my opinion, how I see it, you can try and change my mind but I doubt you could.
We will just wait and see how well this works on our crime invested state, ey. The truth will be seen after the law is in effect for a year or two.
I only see this battle hurting our state further, it's really bad timing for this. There is a lot of other, more productive things we could have and should have done to really fix our problems. Like deal with crime, maybe hire a little more police enforcement, oh ya, were broke and can't.
Too bad this law won't do anything to stop that action isn't it. Most of the Cartel in AZ are infused American gangs, and legal criminals. The ones getting kidnapped are the illegal ones, that should only of been helping AZ with it's agenda.
What, do you think we will do, deport them before they get kidnapped? ha ha I doubt it. What we needed to be working on is the drugs and weapons. It would have been more effective to up the drug force and stop making it so damn easy to sell and buy weapons in our state. But, since I believe it's not about the crime, then it makes more sense. No doubt in my mind there is a different agenda here. We weren't doing anything about the crime before and we won't be doing it after.
People love their drugs here and love their guns, I don't see this law changing that. But, this is just my opinion, how I see it, you can try and change my mind but I doubt you could.
We will just wait and see how well this works on our crime invested state, ey. The truth will be seen after the law is in effect for a year or two.
I only see this battle hurting our state further, it's really bad timing for this. There is a lot of other, more productive things we could have and should have done to really fix our problems. Like deal with crime, maybe hire a little more police enforcement, oh ya, were broke and can't.
This makes too much sense.
As much as I want to see better enforcement of our immigration laws I believe this bill has overstepped its boundaries.
Think about it, if there wasn't such a demand for drugs, cheap imports, and immigrant labor in our own country the cartels and the undocumented immigrants wouldn't be such a problem.
The way to go about this is not to target the illegals over here doing grunt labor, but go after the legal Americans who are contributing to the demand for it.
Yea, I don't disagree that things need to be done, just about whats being done. Bush sent troops for a year, said he sent them just to help the states beef up border after Napoletano begged for some money so that she could afford to control the border, her point, we should as a state receive more funding because it cost us more having a border than non bordering states, well, Bush said no deal. You know your a border state, pay for it yourself. We failed to beef up the border patrol enough and as he withdrawled the troops people were screaming about it.
We don't have enough taxes to pay for the border patrol. Nobody wants that, most of the people in favor of this law won't pay more taxes for border control. This law will take more taxes, if we do this on our own. Such a contradiction, Jan Brewer is just making a stink, even though they have started sending more troops back to AZ, she wants the focus on the feds and not her admin. for not doing enough on this issue. Not enough, not enough, well our local government hasn't done enough for years. Our population doesn't want anything done. They don't want higher taxes, they don't want stricter gun control laws, higher wages for people in the field, more jails. We have had the power to do this all along, nothings changed, we are just too broke! We don't make laws to support lower crime, we just keep making a mess of it. It's like the wizard of oz around here.
Now we are crying about our problems and want papa to clean it up for us. What did AZ just realize it's a border state? We should've planned for this in the budget, and left the cute lizard decor off the bloody freeway, etc. Left some pot holes in the road, I mean, I know we like nice roads out here but it might have to wait. We have border control to pay for, it's a fact of life, we have always bordered Mexico. As does our neighbor, New Mexico. We need more police, border control and better local laws to enforce lower crime, way more police officers with better pay so they can afford to perform the grueling tasks around the border.
Its the same with our education, weve sucked at that for years and years. It takes money, but we look at it like a dept instead of a investment. Same with our police dept., border control, drug enforcement, etc. We should be paying way more taxes, but that won't go over well with the same people
bitching on here about immigration reform. ha ha It's amazing, and sickening.
If we were really concerned about crime here, we would have never passed a gun law that enabled you to carry out in the open to a public domaine. Do you not think that is hindering the police in taking down the Cartel? What a joke, think our cops are supermen? The feds going to give us extra powers or something? ha ha Think again!
We could be using this money to beef up our cops, instead it will be used to sit in court and make their jobs harder. yippie.
To really address this issue we should have joined with NM, CA and Texas, came up with a plan, with the feds. We shouldn't have gone it alone, it compounds the problem for the other bordering states, sending hords of illegals their way. Not to mention, takes away from our own sad economy. We just don't know how to be diplomatic, and we look ignorant and stupid. Do we need something done, yes, do we know how to do it? NO, WE DON'T!
It's sad but true
The fact of the matter is, it''s going to cost more to live in a bordering state, not less. We could have gone it alone without the publicity, this isn't going to make the government work on immigration anymore than it ever has, despite what party has been in office. It is not their goal people, we need to get over it and really handle it ourselves. Not just put on a big show, this won't help, it will only hurt an already festering situation. We need to lead by example, not throw a big fit that will only result in boycotts, and court cases. We need to grow up, and fix our crap.
Yea, I don't disagree that things need to be done, just about whats being done. Bush sent troops for a year, said he sent them just to help the states beef up border after Napoletano begged for some money so that she could afford to control the border, her point, we should as a state receive more funding because it cost us more having a border than non bordering states, well, Bush said no deal. You know your a border state, pay for it yourself. We failed to beef up the border patrol enough and as he withdrawled the troops people were screaming about it.
We don't have enough taxes to pay for the border patrol. Nobody wants that, most of the people in favor of this law won't pay more taxes for border control. This law will take more taxes, if we do this on our own. Such a contradiction, Jan Brewer is just making a stink, even though they have started sending more troops back to AZ, she wants the focus on the feds and not her admin. for not doing enough on this issue. Not enough, not enough, well our local government hasn't done enough for years. Our population doesn't want anything done. They don't want higher taxes, they don't want stricter gun control laws, higher wages for people in the field, more jails. We have had the power to do this all along, nothings changed, we are just too broke! We don't make laws to support lower crime, we just keep making a mess of it. It's like the wizard of oz around here.
Now we are crying about our problems and want papa to clean it up for us. What did AZ just realize it's a border state? We should've planned for this in the budget, and left the cute lizard decor off the bloody freeway, etc. Left some pot holes in the road, I mean, I know we like nice roads out here but it might have to wait. We have border control to pay for, it's a fact of life, we have always bordered Mexico. As does our neighbor, New Mexico. We need more police, border control and better local laws to enforce lower crime, way more police officers with better pay so they can afford to perform the grueling tasks around the border.
Its the same with our education, weve sucked at that for years and years. It takes money, but we look at it like a dept instead of a investment. Same with our police dept., border control, drug enforcement, etc. We should be paying way more taxes, but that won't go over well with the same people
bitching on here about immigration reform. ha ha It's amazing, and sickening.
If we were really concerned about crime here, we would have never passed a gun law that enabled you to carry out in the open to a public domaine. Do you not think that is hindering the police in taking down the Cartel? What a joke, think our cops are supermen? The feds going to give us extra powers or something? ha ha Think again!
We could be using this money to beef up our cops, instead it will be used to sit in court and make their jobs harder. yippie.
To really address this issue we should have joined with NM, CA and Texas, came up with a plan, with the feds. We shouldn't have gone it alone, it compounds the problem for the other bordering states, sending hords of illegals their way. Not to mention, takes away from our own sad economy. We just don't know how to be diplomatic, and we look ignorant and stupid. Do we need something done, yes, do we know how to do it? NO, WE DON'T!
It's sad but true
The fact of the matter is, it''s going to cost more to live in a bordering state, not less. We could have gone it alone without the publicity, this isn't going to make the government work on immigration anymore than it ever has, despite what party has been in office. It is not their goal people, we need to get over it and really handle it ourselves. Not just put on a big show, this won't help, it will only hurt an already festering situation. We need to lead by example, not throw a big fit that will only result in boycotts, and court cases. We need to grow up, and fix our crap.
This is very nicely written, and I agree with everything in your writing. However, there are important questions hanging in the air. Why is the Obama administration suing the people of Arizona? He is supposed to protect the border and the American people.But he is protecting here the criminals, the drug dealers, the invaders? And why Arizona have to pay for the courts? Why he is not bringing in the military for a serious border protection and patrol,the military is already getting paid, it would cost nothing extra.To protect the country and the border is the job for the president, and for the military. The military should be on the border with guns, dogs, drones, cameras, and helicopters.
This is very nicely written, and I agree with everything in your writing. However, there are important questions hanging in the air. Why is the Obama administration suing the people of Arizona? He is supposed to protect the border and the American people.But he is protecting here the criminals, the drug dealers, the invaders? And why Arizona have to pay for the courts? Why he is not bringing in the military for a serious border protection and patrol,the military is already getting paid, it would cost nothing extra.To protect the country and the border is the job for the president, and for the military. The military should be on the border with guns, dogs, drones, cameras, and helicopters.
This is long, so read at your own risk of eyeititis. ha ha
Its a federal issue, like free trade, each state cannot inact an immigration law. If we get away with this we could also inact all the other federal laws. Each state would become like it's own country. This is why they are sueing AZ, and they will probably win unless we try to become our own country.
Our national government is suppose to do a lot of things they haven't yet done or may never do. It's a shame, but, they have another agenda. All in due time we keep hearing, and that will be subject to congress and so on. Who knows if we or any other border state will ever be able to soley rely on the feds for control. It's part of the states responsibility as well and govenors to be are fully aware of this going into office. We have had underpaid police and border control officers for years, not many will pay the taxes for more law enforcement.
We are getting troops sent here, Obama is sending troops, money, dogs, cameras, warning signs, training guards, and special air planes to our border along with New Mexico and Texas. He came down and presented it to Jan, laid it all out for her. It's just a start he said until things push through congress, etc. But that wasn't enough for Jan Brewer, she wants more and wants it now. Not from her administration, or she would get crap for raising our taxes, but from the feds. This way she gets all the credit and none of the hassel. It's a good plan for her, but not for us or her police force whom this will impact the most. Face it, it really isn't most of us that deal with this everyday. Which is why we don't pay for it.
Plus, and this is a big plus, the feds have had a different agenda going for our borders with Mexico and Canada for a long time. They would like to open those borders up between both countries and have a "Euro" type dollar system. This has been in the works for quite awhile, through many Presidents. Since terror has come into the picture this idea has become harder to grasp, as well as all the gang activity from the Cartel who knows how it will be handled but the Cartel is fully active in almost every state in our country by legal criminals. We wouldn't say, "don't let the Italians in here anymore because of the Mafia". It doesn't matter anymore and the Cartel is a seperate issue from immigration. They have already filtered through the U.S. and set up shop. It's big money, and as long as we buy drugs and guns here they will thrive, everywhere. The border states just have drug trafficers, from the Cartel going back and forth. Both Americans and Mexicans do this, just like all the other businesses that have American products made in sweat shops in Mexico.
To really address our problem, right now, we would have to do a 180, stop blaming everything from our education problems and crime on illegal immigration and be accountable for our own actions. This is more a war on drugs not immigrants so we need to start there. It's a gang, drug and gun issue. Nothing we haven't been dealing with for years. It is going to take a lot of police and drug investigators, which will in turn take a lot of money.
The Cartel is a Mexican born gang, but it's now an American gang as well. We didn't shut our borders when we caught the 'Swine flu" from Mexico. We won't do it because of the Cartel either. This is 2010, everyone goes everywhere and in America our constitution protects the "people" and they don't have to be legal to be protected. People fail to realize this, you cannot question someone on the basis of their skin, voice, the way they dress, even if you are correct. You just can't, our constitution is well known for letting criminals free because we cannot assume something about someone. It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong. This is why we don't fight terrorist in our country, we can't. But we can overseas, and we do.
The only way we could address the immigration is to invade and go to war with Mexico. They don't have the constitution, so we could do what we want. Therefore, Arizona is surely not going to be able to do it, just because Jan said we are. No way will it fly in court, this is just a waste of our money. Court and lawyers cost money, and I'm sure we are paying big bucks. Jan Brewer said "she saw this coming" and "was prepared to fight it all the way". So she already thought it would be worth the money to make this statement. So far, she has definitly moved herself out of blames way for our crappy record for securing anything, and has moved it to the feds. Meanwhile the bandwagen has jump on our asses about being cruel, boycotted us, lost us more and more money. We don't really have the funds to keep it all up, and if she wins? What money are we going to use to fight this war ourselves? It's a no win either way.
Sorry so long, but this issue is long, it's not as simple as people say. It isn't just the feds not helping us, or it's the same law, no biggy. It's a recession for one, oil in the gulf, Cartel, terrorist, health care, it's a lot of crap. Not to mention, this isn't an agenda that the feds want, nor is this their solution to terrorism, or they would have already jumped on it. They are slow moving for a reason, and we won't make a difference, we are out of our league.
We, as a state, could make it all a lot better, on our own, but we won't either. Even with this law, that everyone says is just like the fed law and just what we have pretty much always done. It's not about this, the state government would have to be "unpopular" to do it. They won't do that, so it won't ever get done. The usual crap, lol.
Don't get me wrong, I think something needs to be done, I don't think it's fair, I agree that the feds should be doing a lot more and so do a lot of other people, it's just that this won't fix it. This is just another bad idea, and cost us money during a already stressed economy. I wish we could have go about it differently, it just seems so childish, and it really cannot have a positive outcome. The boycotts alone shed bad light not to mention, we need those events here, we are broke!
If someone says we have bad education we say "oh it's because of the "illegals", if they say we have crime we say, "oh, it's because of the illegals", if we have a bad economy we say, "oh, it's because of the illegals", etc....etc......The illegals have been a great excuse to not really fixing anything in AZ, I wonder what we will do without it? lol
Location: In an alternate universe according to some
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyoming Darrell
Yes. the illegal was guilty of crossing the border illegally. He does not share guilt if the EMPLOYER doesn't withhold taxes and SIS. Check your laws.
Just a slight clarification, if your employer doesn't withhold taxes guess who the IRS goes after? *hint* the obvious answer is not correct...
They come after the employee. Seen it, been there done that... From what I was told it's the EMPLOYEE resposiblility to make sure taxes are paid.
Rhode Island doesn't get the same "flax" for their law on the books because no one rows up to their shores trying to cross into the US and the land borders apparently don't seem to be much of a problem...yet.
Rhode Island doesn't get the same "flax" for their law on the books because no one rows up to their shores trying to cross into the US and the land borders apparently don't seem to be much of a problem...yet.
Your lucky! I'd trade you in a minute! lol I would sit right out on that beach all day and await the illegals. ha ha With my umbrella and Lobsta roll. he he
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