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Old 04-30-2010, 09:37 AM
 
154 posts, read 138,646 times
Reputation: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grannysroost View Post
And to add to the bolded...Not just not hiring because they are legal citizens, but because they would have to pay a reasonable wage, and also pay the federal and state payroll taxes, SS and medicare, unemployment taxes, etc. Maybe that is why these 'employers' need to be shut down for not only hiring illegals, but also for tax evasion and the other crimes they are committing.
Exactly, I had a friend who when applying for one of those jobs that work in the field watering plants and flowers to be sold in stores like home depot and places like that they did everything they could to discourage from taking the job by talking about how its minimum wage, he would have to work around 40 hours in the sun all day surrounded by people who don't speak English, he said that was fine, well suddenly the hours went from being 40 to 60 and they asked him if that was acceptable and he said yes and then again the hours increase and he said yes, then after the interview ended and they didn't give him the job.

They will do everything they can to get it so that you won't accept the conditions and when you do they try to either make it worse by working more hours or they just won't hire you.

 
Old 04-30-2010, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Avondale and Tempe, Arizona
1,624 posts, read 1,496,277 times
Reputation: 1304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noliving View Post
Ya easily the state can afford it, why because although people are picketing the arizona sports team in small numbers people in large numbers are still going to the games. Wow boycotts, how many of those people staging boycotts go to arizona on a regular basis? Be honest how big is the economic impact right now on Arizona? Basically minimal, I mean the sports team thing isn't even working right now.

Well those lazy american citizens are not even given a chance to do those jobs during a recession because the employer has already filled the position with illegals or when americans do apply for those jobs they are not hired by the employer for the sole reason they are american.
Doesn't matter if they come here or not, they are demonstrating in fairly large numbers and making the state look like a backwater. That has a way of discouraging potential travelers from coming to Arizona.

The economic impact I believe is more than minimal, but even if it is can the state afford to lose even a small amount of business? Face it, the economy sucks and any further loss of jobs or revenue has an impact.

What I wrote about the illegals and jobs was referring to the potential result of sb 1070. Let's say the bill does what it's supposed to and removes all these undocumented workers. Then what jobs will be left for the legal citizens?

Do you honestly want Arizona's job market to consist of lettuce-picking or other similar low-paying service-oriented jobs?

This state really needs to enter the 21st century. It can't keep shunning education and be relying so heavily on a poorly-educated grunt workforce. Arizona will be no better than a third-world country if we keep on this path.
 
Old 04-30-2010, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Southern Arizona
7,893 posts, read 15,677,201 times
Reputation: 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noliving View Post
Exactly, I had a friend who when applying for one of those jobs that work in the field watering plants and flowers to be sold in stores like home depot and places like that they did everything they could to discourage from taking the job by talking about how its minimum wage, he would have to work around 40 hours in the sun all day surrounded by people who don't speak English, he said that was fine, well suddenly the hours went from being 40 to 60 and they asked him if that was acceptable and he said yes and then again the hours increase and he said yes, then after the interview ended and they didn't give him the job.

They will do everything they can to get it so that you won't accept the conditions and when you do they try to either make it worse by working more hours or they just won't hire you.
No matter how hard they try to Perfume The Pig, Noliving . . .

What you are describing is nothing but MODERN DAY SLAVERY and should not be tolerated. Obviously, any individual or group opposing this new law and encouraging the illegals are Mod Cut: Personal hypocrites and are promoting SLAVERY.
 
Old 04-30-2010, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Southern Arizona
7,893 posts, read 15,677,201 times
Reputation: 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grannysroost View Post
And to add to the bolded...Not just not hiring because they are legal citizens, but because they would have to pay a reasonable wage, and also pay the federal and state payroll taxes, SS and medicare, unemployment taxes, etc. Maybe that is why these 'employers' need to be shut down for not only hiring illegals, but also for tax evasion and the other crimes they are committing.
ABSOLUTELY, Granny . . .

The employers are every bit as guilty as the illegals. Both groups need to be severely punished.
 
Old 04-30-2010, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Avondale and Tempe, Arizona
1,624 posts, read 1,496,277 times
Reputation: 1304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bummer View Post
No matter how hard they try to Perfume The Pig, Noliving . . .

What you are describing is nothing but MODERN DAY SLAVERY and should not be tolerated. Obviously, any individual or group opposing this new law and encouraging the illegals are uneducated hypocrites and are promoting SLAVERY.
I don't encourage illegals and I'm sure as heck not a promoter of slavery.

I'm asking who will do the grunt work even if in our wildest dreams all the illegals are removed from the workplaces.

Are you willing to scrub toilets, pick vegetables in the field, and mow your neighbor's yard in the heat of the summer?

Even if we can somehow remove all the illegals there will still be slave labor, it will shift from the illegals to the legal citizens. Most Americans have become so lazy that they won't do these demeaning jobs anymore so will they even get done?

Do you want Arizona's legal workforce focused on grunt-level service jobs instead of better-educated, higher-paying jobs?
 
Old 04-30-2010, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Denver
831 posts, read 824,125 times
Reputation: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grannysroost View Post
And to add to the bolded...Not just not hiring because they are legal citizens, but because they would have to pay a reasonable wage, and also pay the federal and state payroll taxes, SS and medicare, unemployment taxes, etc. Maybe that is why these 'employers' need to be shut down for not only hiring illegals, but also for tax evasion and the other crimes they are committing.

Absolutely. That would do more to curb illegal immigration than almost anything else we can do.
 
Old 04-30-2010, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
16,956 posts, read 20,037,791 times
Reputation: 8888
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java Jolt View Post
I don't encourage illegals and I'm sure as heck not a promoter of slavery.

I'm asking who will do the grunt work even if in our wildest dreams all the illegals are removed from the workplaces.

Are you willing to scrub toilets, pick vegetables in the field, and mow your neighbor's yard in the heat of the summer?

Even if we can somehow remove all the illegals there will still be slave labor, it will shift from the illegals to the legal citizens. Most Americans have become so lazy that they won't do these demeaning jobs anymore so will they even get done?

Do you want Arizona's legal workforce focused on grunt-level service jobs instead of better-educated, higher-paying jobs?
Let's start with LEGAL immigrants. Only the uninformed make the argument that youthful, entry level workers are not needed in our economy. We simply are not churning out enough babies to fuel the needs of the 21st century including paying the social security for all the retiring boomers.

However, the problem is that we are not being selective about who we admit. We just let anyone walk across the border. Most are good, many are bad apples. FIRST secure the border, then implement a controlled immigration where WE select people based on the skills we need and/or their potential as future citizens. We are going to see a lot of Hispanics come in under that scenario, because we need them, the geography favors them and their culture is similar to ours. But they will be LEGAL. We will know where they are, how many they are, what they are doing. They will carry ID. They won't have to steal an identity to work and will be expelled if they break our laws. And this law will not be necessary.

But it all comes down to a secure border and our government is not interested in doing that task. Given that reality, Arizona has no responsibility to tolerate the adverse impacts of illegal and uncontrolled immigration and is justified in whatever measures are taken to protect its citizens.
 
Old 04-30-2010, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Southern Arizona
7,893 posts, read 15,677,201 times
Reputation: 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
Let's start with LEGAL immigrants. Only the uninformed make the argument that youthful, entry level workers are not needed in our economy. We simply are not churning out enough babies to fuel the needs of the 21st century including paying the social security for all the retiring boomers.

However, the problem is that we are not being selective about who we admit. We just let anyone walk across the border. Most are good, many are bad apples. FIRST secure the border, then implement a controlled immigration where WE select people based on the skills we need and/or their potential as future citizens. We are going to see a lot of Hispanics come in under that scenario, because we need them, the geography favors them and their culture is similar to ours. But they will be LEGAL. We will know where they are, how many they are, what they are doing. They will carry ID. They won't have to steal an identity to work and will be expelled if they break our laws. And this law will not be necessary.

But it all comes down to a secure border and our government is not interested in doing that task.
Excellent point, Ponderosa!

Unfortunately, until our Leaders in Washington address the Border as well as the Common Criminal Employers . . . this law is necessary.
 
Old 04-30-2010, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Avondale and Tempe, Arizona
1,624 posts, read 1,496,277 times
Reputation: 1304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
Let's start with LEGAL immigrants. Only the uninformed make the argument that youthful, entry level workers are not needed in our economy. We simply are not churning out enough babies to fuel the needs of the 21st century including paying the social security for all the retiring boomers.

However, the problem is that we are not being selective about who we admit. We just let anyone walk across the border. Most are good, many are bad apples. FIRST secure the border, then implement a controlled immigration where WE select people based on the skills we need and/or their potential as future citizens. We are going to see a lot of Hispanics come in under that scenario, because we need them, the geography favors them and their culture is similar to ours. But they will be LEGAL. We will know where they are, how many they are, what they are doing. They will carry ID. They won't have to steal an identity to work and will be expelled if they break our laws. And this law will not be necessary.

But it all comes down to a secure border and our government is not interested in doing that task.
Everything you wrote sounds marvelous but will it really happen?

Even if illegals are pushed aside in the service-oriented workforce in favor of legal immigrants what makes anyone think they will be paid any better than the slave wages illegals are getting now? Will legal citizens really want those jobs?

If we all live happily ever after under this new law I will be more encouraged by its results.

But you wrote if everything is accomplished then this law won't be necessary, so do you think this law will be repealed if that magical day arrives? Somehow I doubt it.
 
Old 04-30-2010, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Maple Lake, MN
8,672 posts, read 9,762,061 times
Reputation: 10149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java Jolt View Post
Everything you wrote sounds marvelous but will it really happen?

Even if illegals are pushed aside in the service-oriented workforce in favor of legal immigrants what makes anyone think they will be paid any better than the slave wages illegals are getting now? Will legal citizens really want those jobs?

If we all live happily ever after under this new law I will be more encouraged by its results.

But you wrote if everything is accomplished then this law won't be necessary, so do you think this law will be repealed if that magical day arrives? Somehow I doubt it.
I think this law will be put down before it even takes hold, or be added to, rewritten again and again and be what in the end,except cost this state money it doesn't have....But it has gotten the attention of the federal government who dropped the ball (again) where legal citizens and immigrants are concerned and have allowed the problems we are having now with illegals and 'employers' that choose to take advantage of the lack of enforcement.
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