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Old 01-28-2011, 01:09 PM
 
12,439 posts, read 9,964,233 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thewizard16 View Post
It was certainly a poor decision, and I have to wonder about his motives. The snippets from that article sound innocent enough, but surely he's not so oblivious that he didn't realize that would cause a mess.

Incidentally- Marshall is about 50 minutes south of Harrison, for those reading the thread title that don't know. It's no more a part of Harrison than Eureka Springs or Mountain Home.

Thanks for the clarification on where Marshall is in Arkansas. After looking up the city on City Data. I have arrived at the conclusion... who cares about what they do in Marshall, Arkansas. They have 1266 people in the city. They only have 4 black people in the whole city. It is poor, uneducated city in Arkansas. It is not growing and will likely not be growing anytime soon based on the attitude of people mentioned in the article. At least the city council is intelligent enough to know that it is not a good advertisement for the city.

I will just add the city to my list of cities to stay away from.

http://www.city-data.com/city/Marshall-Arkansas.html

 
Old 01-28-2011, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Wichita, KS
678 posts, read 1,446,414 times
Reputation: 648
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
Thanks for the clarification on where Marshall is in Arkansas. After looking up the city on City Data. I have arrived at the conclusion... who cares about what they do in Marshall, Arkansas. They have 1266 people in the city. They only have 4 black people in the whole city. It is poor, uneducated city in Arkansas. It is not growing and will likely not be growing anytime soon based on the attitude of people mentioned in the article. At least the city council is intelligent enough to know that it is not a good advertisement for the city.

I will just add the city to my list of cities to stay away from.

http://www.city-data.com/city/Marshall-Arkansas.html
Oh, I wouldn't worry about them. The mayor may have been a little inflammatory (or just oblivious), but the city council took appropriate steps and settled the issue for the future as well. If the mayor wants to celebrate with that flag, that's absolutely fine, but he can do it on his flagpole at home, not on city property, and that's the verdict the city council delivered as well. At any rate, I won't judge the entire town based on the actions of a few (or one), especially when I don't know their motives.
 
Old 01-28-2011, 01:34 PM
 
12,439 posts, read 9,964,233 times
Reputation: 3129
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewizard16 View Post
Oh, I wouldn't worry about them. The mayor may have been a little inflammatory (or just oblivious), but the city council took appropriate steps and settled the issue for the future as well. If the mayor wants to celebrate with that flag, that's absolutely fine, but he can do it on his flagpole at home, not on city property, and that's the verdict the city council delivered as well. At any rate, I won't judge the entire town based on the actions of a few (or one), especially when I don't know their motives.

Well other than to see the occasional rebel flag on city property, is there actually any reason to go to Marshall. I have never actually heard of it until the thread, but I have not heard about a lot of these smaller cities.
 
Old 01-28-2011, 02:26 PM
 
1,009 posts, read 1,852,090 times
Reputation: 1423
Default The only significance I can think of in the area

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
Thanks for the clarification on where Marshall is in Arkansas. After looking up the city on City Data. I have arrived at the conclusion... who cares about what they do in Marshall, Arkansas. They have 1266 people in the city. They only have 4 black people in the whole city. It is poor, uneducated city in Arkansas. It is not growing and will likely not be growing anytime soon based on the attitude of people mentioned in the article. At least the city council is intelligent enough to know that it is not a good advertisement for the city.

I will just add the city to my list of cities to stay away from.

http://www.city-data.com/city/Marshall-Arkansas.html

You unwittingly identified the unspoken issue in your demographic breakdown. Many of these towns in the Ozark region of NW Arkansas and SW Missouri have few or no blacks. But this was not always the case. The Ozarks are perhaps the most notorious region in the United States for racial cleansing in which during the early 20th century blacks were run out of town by way of violence. Berryville (http://hnn.us/articles/35847.html - broken link) and Harrison, AR and Pierce City, MO are probably the most notorious examples. After the blacks were killed or otherwised forced out, it was generally left up to the KKK to keep them out.

The flying of the Confederate battle flag (which is not the actual flag of the CSA and I'm sure most southerners wouldn't even recognize it if they saw it at this point) is generally a sign in these communities that blacks are not welcome and the KKK still extralegally enforces the expulsions. Elected officials of these towns then chalk up the flying of these flags by not private citizens but on public buildings as "civic pride". Feel free to attend this professor's presentation on racial cleansings at the Shiloh Museum of Ozark History in Springdale on this upcoming Tuesday. People keep talking about how insignificant these towns are. Perhaps you should read Buried in the Bitter Waters and Sundown Towns: these Arkansas towns aren't as innocuous as they might seem.
 
Old 01-28-2011, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Wichita, KS
678 posts, read 1,446,414 times
Reputation: 648
hotair,
Oh I don't know if there's much reason to go there or not, I've only driven through on the way down to Little Rock a few times and I think we picked up canoeing supplies there once, but it seemed like any other little town that may have seen better days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelers10 View Post
You unwittingly identified the unspoken issue in your demographic breakdown. Many of these towns in the Ozark region of NW Arkansas and SW Missouri have few or no blacks. But this was not always the case. The Ozarks are perhaps the most notorious region in the United States for racial cleansing in which during the early 20th century blacks were run out of town by way of violence. Berryville (http://hnn.us/articles/35847.html - broken link) and Harrison, AR and Pierce City, MO are probably the most notorious examples. After the blacks were killed or otherwised forced out, it was generally left up to the KKK to keep them out.

The flying of the Confederate battle flag (which is not the actual flag of the CSA and I'm sure most southerners wouldn't even recognize it if they saw it at this point) is generally a sign in these communities that blacks are not welcome and the KKK still extralegally enforces the expulsions. Elected officials of these towns then chalk up the flying of these flags by not private citizens but on public buildings as "civic pride". Feel free to attend this professor's presentation on racial cleansings at the Shiloh Museum of Ozark History in Springdale on this upcoming Tuesday. People keep talking about how insignificant these towns are. Perhaps you should read Buried in the Bitter Waters and Sundown Towns: these Arkansas towns aren't as innocuous as they might seem.
I respect what you're trying to do and agree that there is a lot of history there that most people don't acknowledge, but old stigmas like this can also continue to have negative effects on towns that no longer (if they ever did) fit that mold. I found my former hometown on that "sundown town" list as "probable sundown town" even though they mentioned they had no evidence of it. Although the town is predominantly white, it is a very heavily imported population (lowest percentage of Arkansas born residents in the state of any city) that is hardly a hostile environment. As I mentioned in another thread, stereotyping against towns based on the actions of a few is just as hurtful to those residents (which I'm sure are mostly good upstanding people) as racism or discrimination can be to others. I emailed that professor with more current data (his description contained incorrect census information on this town) and urged him to reconsider that town's placement on the list.
 
Old 01-28-2011, 05:16 PM
 
1,009 posts, read 1,852,090 times
Reputation: 1423
Default Watch the film

Quote:
Originally Posted by thewizard16 View Post
hotair,
Oh I don't know if there's much reason to go there or not, I've only driven through on the way down to Little Rock a few times and I think we picked up canoeing supplies there once, but it seemed like any other little town that may have seen better days.



I respect what you're trying to do and agree that there is a lot of history there that most people don't acknowledge, but old stigmas like this can also continue to have negative effects on towns that no longer (if they ever did) fit that mold. I found my former hometown on that "sundown town" list as "probable sundown town" even though they mentioned they had no evidence of it. Although the town is predominantly white, it is a very heavily imported population (lowest percentage of Arkansas born residents in the state of any city) that is hardly a hostile environment. As I mentioned in another thread, stereotyping against towns based on the actions of a few is just as hurtful to those residents (which I'm sure are mostly good upstanding people) as racism or discrimination can be to others. I emailed that professor with more current data (his description contained incorrect census information on this town) and urged him to reconsider that town's placement on the list.
If you ever see the film "Banished", I think what is happening now are some of the towns are trying to make visible gestures to erase the stigma that they still exclude blacks. It is just curious to all researchers that these towns were once diverse but after the blacks were run out they are still overwhelmingly white and there is still a KKK presence in the area. I'm not trying to do anything; this is not my research.
 
Old 01-28-2011, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Wichita, KS
678 posts, read 1,446,414 times
Reputation: 648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelers10 View Post
If you ever see the film "Banished", I think what is happening now are some of the towns are trying to make visible gestures to erase the stigma that they still exclude blacks. It is just curious to all researchers that these towns were once diverse but after the blacks were run out they are still overwhelmingly white and there is still a KKK presence in the area. I'm not trying to do anything; this is not my research.
I haven't seen that film, but I'll keep an eye out for it. At any rate, the town in mention was never diverse. There may have been a slave population a long time ago, but it never had any shred of diversity other than that. Many other towns are more fitting of that "once diverse" label, and there is technically still a KKK presence in a few parts of Arkansas (as well as other states), but I imagine their days are numbered as the old racists die off. At any rate, this really doesn't have much to do with the intent of this thread anymore, so I'll drop it and try to stop derailing things.
 
Old 01-28-2011, 07:08 PM
 
1,009 posts, read 1,852,090 times
Reputation: 1423
Default Don't worry about derailing things

Quote:
Originally Posted by thewizard16 View Post
I haven't seen that film, but I'll keep an eye out for it. At any rate, the town in mention was never diverse. There may have been a slave population a long time ago, but it never had any shred of diversity other than that. Many other towns are more fitting of that "once diverse" label, and there is technically still a KKK presence in a few parts of Arkansas (as well as other states), but I imagine their days are numbered as the old racists die off. At any rate, this really doesn't have much to do with the intent of this thread anymore, so I'll drop it and try to stop derailing things.
I would encourage you not to drop it. The best thing you could do (also what individuals in the film did) is to say whatever happened in this region does not represent me and my beliefs. This is a free country; you have a right to voice your opinion and I say you can educate others. Heck you are reading all of this on this forum!
 
Old 01-28-2011, 09:34 PM
 
3,391 posts, read 5,851,944 times
Reputation: 3797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelers10 View Post
I would encourage you not to drop it. The best thing you could do (also what individuals in the film did) is to say whatever happened in this region does not represent me and my beliefs. This is a free country; you have a right to voice your opinion and I say you can educate others. Heck you are reading all of this on this forum!
Actually, the wizard understands the Terms of Service here on City Data better than many other members. The topic is fine to discuss, but it's not fine to hijack a thread or take the conversation in a different direction as this one is headed.

The local state and city forums exist primarily as relocation resources. We have other forums that are designed specially for other areas of interest, including Politics and Other Controversies. That would be the appropriate forum to visit to discuss the state of race relations in America today.

This thread seems to have run its course on the original topic, and is now closed.
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