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Old 02-07-2011, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Obey the FriendlyFeller
1,101 posts, read 1,078,830 times
Reputation: 2405

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
The problem in Fort Smith is complex, but this is one huge part of it. Every time the opportunity comes (which is not very often) for a large new development bringing jobs, shopping, or entertainment to Fort Smith, city leaders and residents do nothing but whine about it. You should have seen the drama that preceded the building of the Target shopping center. In other cities, a Target shopping center wouldn't have been any big deal but people in Fort Smith were up in arms about it. Then there was the Toyota plant, the minor league baseball stadium, the sports complex, the casino, the IBM plant, etc, all wanted to invest in Fort Smith but the city told them no. The fact that the city would offer no incentive for 600 jobs to locate in Phoenix Village Mall says a lot. The bottom line is the city is run by a good ole' boy network that has been in the area for multiple generations, and until that network is out of power, the town is going to keep declining further and further towards complete irrelevance.
It wasn't the city of Fort Smith that was against Target moving in, it was the people who lived right next to it. They raised a stink and then somebody vandalized a lot of construction equipment and I doubt it was mayor Baker.

I would have voted for the sports complex if I knew "sports complex" was a codename for a baseball stadium.

Toyota plant? Fort Smith wishes it could get a Toyota plant.

I don't like the way the casino was handled, that was a missed opportunity.

IBM

I don't know about not offering incentives for the new call center, all I know is that ArkansasSlim said hey did you hear about the 600 jobs at Phoenix village.
If they didn't offer them incentives I guess it was a good call as apparently it wasn't necessary.
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Old 02-07-2011, 10:48 PM
 
12,439 posts, read 5,680,592 times
Reputation: 3107
Fort smith is the way that it is because the people in the position to change it want it this way...I don't know why.

I would like to see thme build a giant mall. Most people that I know don't shop in Ft. Smith because there is just not that great of selection...so we are just seeing money leave the city.
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Old 02-08-2011, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,947 posts, read 9,383,490 times
Reputation: 4227
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
Fort smith is the way that it is because the people in the position to change it want it this way...I don't know why.

I would like to see thme build a giant mall. Most people that I know don't shop in Ft. Smith because there is just not that great of selection...so we are just seeing money leave the city.
Simon Properties tried to build a super-regional mall in Little Rock but most in the city were against it and it was eventually defeated. I doubt it would go over well in Ft Smith. Central Mall is big enough for a town the size of Fort Smith they just need to bring in some new stores.
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Old 02-08-2011, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Quapaw Quarter, Little Rock
838 posts, read 1,383,555 times
Reputation: 343
really? bummer! that's the first I've heard of it. where did you learn of it?
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Old 02-08-2011, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Little Rock, AR
642 posts, read 884,911 times
Reputation: 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenni-b View Post
really? bummer! that's the first I've heard of it. where did you learn of it?
This was a while ago. It was going to be called Summit Mall and was planned to be built where Shackleford Crossings now stands. I'm not so sure it's a bummer- the opposition to Summit was so strong not just due to opposing the development of that plot of land (or Shackleford Crossings wouldn't have been able to get underway so quickly after the Summit project was withdrawn), but also because of Simon's neglect of its existing properties in Central Arkansas. They ran University Mall into the ground and are now letting McCain become tired and unappealing- a lot of people didn't want them building a brand new mall in West Little Rock when they weren't taking care of their existing properties. Personally, I think Simon's pattern of building a mall, ignoring it to the point where it is no longer cost-effective to save, and then building a new mall and abandoning the old property (which is what was obviously about to happen with University Mall when Summit was being discussed) is bad for the cities they locate in and I don't mind that Summit didn't happen. McCain still has a lot of potential if they'd give it even a decent remodel and possibly an expansion, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Old 02-08-2011, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,947 posts, read 9,383,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thewizard16 View Post
This was a while ago. It was going to be called Summit Mall and was planned to be built where Shackleford Crossings now stands. I'm not so sure it's a bummer- the opposition to Summit was so strong not just due to opposing the development of that plot of land (or Shackleford Crossings wouldn't have been able to get underway so quickly after the Summit project was withdrawn), but also because of Simon's neglect of its existing properties in Central Arkansas. They ran University Mall into the ground and are now letting McCain become tired and unappealing- a lot of people didn't want them building a brand new mall in West Little Rock when they weren't taking care of their existing properties. Personally, I think Simon's pattern of building a mall, ignoring it to the point where it is no longer cost-effective to save, and then building a new mall and abandoning the old property (which is what was obviously about to happen with University Mall when Summit was being discussed) is bad for the cities they locate in and I don't mind that Summit didn't happen. McCain still has a lot of potential if they'd give it even a decent remodel and possibly an expansion, but I'm not holding my breath.
While I agree Simon's pattern of neglecting it's older properties and building new is bad business, University Mall was doomed whether Summit was built or not, and instead of the mall being built a strip center anchored by a Wal-Mart Supercenter ended up in it's place. I can't really say that's a better alternative than having a super-regional mall that could have attracted retailers to Arkansas that as is wouldn't even consider locating in the state.
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Old 02-08-2011, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Little Rock, AR
642 posts, read 884,911 times
Reputation: 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
While I agree Simon's pattern of neglecting it's older properties and building new is bad business, University Mall was doomed whether Summit was built or not, and instead of the mall being built a strip center anchored by a Wal-Mart Supercenter ended up in it's place. I can't really say that's a better alternative than having a super-regional mall that could have attracted retailers to Arkansas that as is wouldn't even consider locating in the state.
I don't feel the Shackleford Crossings "power center" is a better alternative either, but I don't think Summit and Simon would have brought in anyone new or even that exciting, honestly. Places like Pottery Barn, Container Store, Anthropologie, XXI, etc. all located, or committed to locate in Midtown/Park Plaza/Chenal while the Summit mess was still going on, so I don't see Summit having brought anyone bigger/more exciting. The only things I can think of that Summit might have given us a fighting chance for is a Macy's (Nordstrom's is a pipe-dream at this population level), and I doubt even that would have materialized due to the Dillard's stranglehold. I think we'd have ended up with the same stores we already have, just in a different location if Summit had materialized. There's no reason that the money/investment that they didn't put into Summit couldn't be put into McCain to expand and finish it out to a premier retail destination and still potentially attract those kind of stores. Park Plaza proved that redeveloping a mall in Central Arkansas and moving it a bit upmarket can work if you're committed and do it right, but I don't see that kind of commitment from Simon.
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Old 02-08-2011, 03:39 PM
 
12,439 posts, read 5,680,592 times
Reputation: 3107
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
Simon Properties tried to build a super-regional mall in Little Rock but most in the city were against it and it was eventually defeated. I doubt it would go over well in Ft Smith. Central Mall is big enough for a town the size of Fort Smith they just need to bring in some new stores.
Central Mall is big enough for the size of Fort Smith, but if you want to attact people from outside of Fort Smith you are going to need something bigger. Most people that I know go to Dallas, Tulsa, or Fayetteville to do any real shopping.
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Old 02-08-2011, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Texarkana
674 posts, read 860,402 times
Reputation: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
The problem in Fort Smith is complex, but this is one huge part of it. Every time the opportunity comes (which is not very often) for a large new development bringing jobs, shopping, or entertainment to Fort Smith, city leaders and residents do nothing but whine about it. You should have seen the drama that preceded the building of the Target shopping center. In other cities, a Target shopping center wouldn't have been any big deal but people in Fort Smith were up in arms about it. Then there was the Toyota plant, the minor league baseball stadium, the sports complex, the casino, the IBM plant, etc, all wanted to invest in Fort Smith but the city told them no. The fact that the city would offer no incentive for 600 jobs to locate in Phoenix Village Mall says a lot. The bottom line is the city is run by a good ole' boy network that has been in the area for multiple generations, and until that network is out of power, the town is going to keep declining further and further towards complete irrelevance.
Man that's a damn shame! Smdh at the city turning down IBM and Toyota, just insane to me.
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Old 02-08-2011, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Obey the FriendlyFeller
1,101 posts, read 1,078,830 times
Reputation: 2405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darbro View Post
Man that's a damn shame! Smdh at the city turning down IBM and Toyota, just insane to me.
Fort Smith did not turn down a Toyota plant.

They spent millions to get Mitsubishi power systems to locate here.

IBM I don't even know where he's getting some of this stuff.

They did chase a river casino out of town.
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