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Old 03-02-2016, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
64,189 posts, read 71,048,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek View Post
^^^ Sweeping generalizations, much??

Just curious, GrandviewGloria: how much time have you spent in Little Rock, or elsewhere in Arkansas, or elsewhere in the Southern United States? Have you just visited briefly, passed through, or did you actually live in any of these places? How many Arkansans do you know well? Do they know you equally well?

There is a grain of truth in some of your assertions, but much of what you wrote is very overstated.
Check her bio; she never lived in AR or it appears she didn't. You are right on, where she is getting her opinion of the south and especially AR is anyone's guess. Maybe she has read too many old novels set in the south?
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Old 03-02-2016, 09:48 PM
 
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op, cabot has 9 elementary schools and many of them are new, as are the families with kids. also, a close commute to nlr.
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Old 03-03-2016, 05:59 AM
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134 posts, read 69,545 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandviewGloria View Post
You and your situation sound PERFECT for Arkansas. Since your husband's job is in a good area, and since you all are totally dependent upon him, it would make sense to pick a good subdivision close to his place of work. Long commutes end up killing husbands (He needs time for rest and exercise, or he will die). And the stress of driving/sleep deprivation, etc., will make him less effective at work.

In the South, it's assumed that kids will have to go to private schools (one reason Middle Class Southern people have so few children). You're lucky in that you're Christians. Your kids will fit in, happily, in a Christian academy. These tend to be the cheapest private option. Little Rock is at the edge of the Midwest. But it's still Southern (bad demographics), and so, really, you have to take a Southerner's approach to life (The village will not raise your child for you, to anything but subhuman standards.) You have to pay for everything, and be responsible for everything. People from regions with better demographics don't seem to understand this about the South. You can't just have kids, in the deep, dark South, and assume that things will turn out alright. I know that Arkansas is better than Mississippi. Still, putting kids in public schools, even on the good side of Little Rock, leaves them at risk of ending up, to one degree or another, like the unspeakably-horribly-murdered Jessica Chambers (https://i.ytimg.com/vi/24bwIuI3mEY/hqdefault.jpg).

In the South, everything is about Church and football. If you're in an enthusiastic-enough Church, you can skip the football, to a degree. It sounds like you'll enjoy the enthusiastic churches.

Don't assume that smaller towns/rural settings equal safe/honest/good people. I know that's how it is, in Minnesota. But the South is entirely different. Frankly, the better people (in terms of bigger brains and winning life strategies) are in the South's better suburban neighborhoods. Pick the right neighborhood (look for lots of trees and shrubbery, and the absence of tricked-out vehicles), and you'll be around people every bit as smart and accomplished as people in Greenwich, Connecticut, or Wayzata, Minnesota. There are some 'upscale' people living on large tracts of land, out in the boonies. But you'd never meet them, since they're busy driving the children/grandchildren to private schools, private lessons, private EVERYTHING.

Oh, and if you get a job at your kids' private school, you may well get a substantial discount on tuition. It varies, from school to school.
A most painfully accurate post.
I'm not necessarily a village-raise-my-kid sort of person, but the village can have a huge impact on them no matter what. I wouldn't want to leave Minnesota either for that reason.
Maumelle is really the only place I'd consider.
Even then, it won't be the same.
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Old 03-04-2016, 05:06 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
64,189 posts, read 71,048,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sub View Post
A most painfully accurate post.
I'm not necessarily a village-raise-my-kid sort of person, but the village can have a huge impact on them no matter what. I wouldn't want to leave Minnesota either for that reason.
Maumelle is really the only place I'd consider.
Even then, it won't be the same.
gee, I have to wonder why so many people from the Upper Midwest end up living in AR? Our church is full of them, all ages, I might add.
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Old 03-04-2016, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
gee, I have to wonder why so many people from the Upper Midwest end up living in AR? Our church is full of them, all ages, I might add.
I can't speak for them. It's just something I wouldn't want to do.
Not saying it's horrible, but there is a difference as was explained quite well. Some people might not mind those differences, or perhaps the trade-off works for them.
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Old 03-04-2016, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
64,189 posts, read 71,048,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sub View Post
I can't speak for them. It's just something I wouldn't want to do.
Not saying it's horrible, but there is a difference as was explained quite well. Some people might not mind those differences, or perhaps the trade-off works for them.
I guess what I am trying to say: We have lived all over the country, from all parts of California, to DC and then Texas, from NM and now AR. Yes each region has its own personality, both pros and cons, but basically all have decent schools without the need for private education. Most areas have a lot of youth activities, shopping, entertainment, and medical facilities. Raising a family is up to the family. If kids are loved and mom and dad take an interest in them, teach them values, they will thrive and be happy wherever they live. I will question anyone who says living in the south requires private schools, etc. This is nonsense.

Here is an example: our oldest great granddaughter is in public school: She is 8 and in third grade. She is also in a gifted program. Her younger sister, who just turned 4 Is in pre K. These are programs just like most areas and states have. Kids here play soccer, play little league, enjoy swim teams, and scouts. Some attend church regularly, some do not. They are not meant to feel out of place either way. I could go one and on. Unless one has actually lived in particular state they have no idea what it is really like: their opinions are pretty much based on hear say.

There was a time when I never would have considered living in AR. Thank Gad we gave it a shot. The worst problem, NWA is one of the fastest growing regions in the country and the infer structure isn't quite ready for the growth.
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Old 03-04-2016, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Lake Oswego, Manhattan, Aspen
2,920 posts, read 3,448,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
gee, I have to wonder why so many people from the Upper Midwest end up living in AR? Our church is full of them, all ages, I might add.
Good LORD! You're up next to Pea Ridge! You DO understand, don't you, that Little Rock is not at all the same as your part of Arkansas?

Something I should have explained to OP, is that Little Rock basically straddles the dividing line between The Delta and The Hills.

The Delta was settled by the sort of people who settle phenomenally rich agricultural areas (a few very smart people, and their slaves/serfs/wage slaves). Your region was settled, in large part, by genuine Hillbillies, from Appalachia - independent people whose history is relatively free from the slave-making/exploitative mentality of the empire builders. Those are two very different worlds.

I LOVE the Ozarks. But I find the Arkansas Delta to be a deeply disturbing place. It's mysterious. I have friends from Greenville, Mississippi, who grew up going to The Washington School, with kids who'd be driven over from the Arkansas side of the river, every day. "They were odd. Nice, smart, mostly Semitic... but exotic." That was the creme of the upper classes, I suppose. Another friend quotes the mother of a friend - a Mississippi Delta girl who married a wealthy planter on the Arkansas side. In describing her Arkansas home to a Greenville friend, she said, "Well... It's kinda PIONEERISH, over here."

Much of the land is/was owned by wealthy families who live elsewhere. I know descendants of the Pughs (an ancient Romano-Judeo-Celtic family, who once were the kings of Wales), whose great-grandparents began as the 'poor' relations, managing Louisiana and Arkansas plantations owned by expat Pughs/Terrys/Perrys/Whetstones in New York and Paris. Descriptions of the family's Arkansas cohort confirm a strangeness - a mystery - an otherworldliness - an odd "Vampire-like drawl" - "Wonderful, in a surreal way." Even before the Civil War, the Arkansas Delta seems to have been the most remote frontier of plantation empires owned by grandees in places like Uptown New Orleans and Natchez. Maybe it's that marginality which makes the region so mysterious.

West Memphis has an amazingly scary vibe. A friend from Hong Kong says she gets an erotic vibe, driving through there. I get an erotic vibe from Jonesboro (maybe because I know that SOMEBODY over there surely has the originals for Black Oak Arkansas' nude photoshoot for an album. My Mama had a thing for Jim Dandy Mangrum. I've heard, second-hand, that Mangrum lived up to the rumors...)

And I've been on the Square in Fayetteville (madly buying that world class Farmer's Market produce, to schlep back to Madison, Mississippi), when the Delta People were in town for a football game. They were SO different from Ozark people: so desperately dolled-up - trying to impress, look rich, and 'fit-in'. I didn't sense 'evil', but everything about them was so different from their Ozark counterparts.

And then, there's the Delta Underclass - so VERY different from the poor in the hills.

Like I said: Little Rock lies on the border between those two worlds. YES, people from the Upper Midwest (an extension of Scandinavia) are going to feel at home in the Ozarks. The kindliness and humility of Ozark People meshes well with the kindliness and humility of Scandinavians.

But Little Rock is a mix. And it seems, to me, to be an uneasy mix.

Yes, OP and her family can have a wonderful life in/around Little Rock. But they need to be aware of the issues. She was asking, basically, "What are the issues?" - a very wise question, I think.

Asking wise questions, and being prepared, seem to me, to be Scandinavian traits. A designer friend (who used to fly up to the Midwest, on searches for a husband) once, while explaining the difference between the Scandinavian (Midwestern) Mind and the Celtic (Southern) Mind, used, as an example, two Arctic explorations. Robert Falcon Scott, the Explorer, expounded, in exhaustingly noble language, that exploration was about pressing-on, with your last ounce of energy, courageously, until you reach your heroic objective. The Leader of a contemporary Scandinavian expedition said something like, "If you had an 'adventure', it means that you didn't prepare very well."

Mr. Scott and his entire team PERISHED. The Scandinavians, on the other hand, fared rather well.

It seems to me, that OP is wisely planning, in order to avoid having an unfortunate "adventure".

Last edited by GrandviewGloria; 03-04-2016 at 02:21 PM..
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Old 03-04-2016, 08:45 PM
 
4,128 posts, read 5,166,126 times
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Wow. Just...........wow.
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Old 03-05-2016, 05:47 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
64,189 posts, read 71,048,892 times
Reputation: 33020
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandviewGloria View Post
Good LORD! You're up next to Pea Ridge! You DO understand, don't you, that Little Rock is not at all the same as your part of Arkansas?

Something I should have explained to OP, is that Little Rock basically straddles the dividing line between The Delta and The Hills.

The Delta was settled by the sort of people who settle phenomenally rich agricultural areas (a few very smart people, and their slaves/serfs/wage slaves). Your region was settled, in large part, by genuine Hillbillies, from Appalachia - independent people whose history is relatively free from the slave-making/exploitative mentality of the empire builders. Those are two very different worlds.

I LOVE the Ozarks. But I find the Arkansas Delta to be a deeply disturbing place. It's mysterious. I have friends from Greenville, Mississippi, who grew up going to The Washington School, with kids who'd be driven over from the Arkansas side of the river, every day. "They were odd. Nice, smart, mostly Semitic... but exotic." That was the creme of the upper classes, I suppose. Another friend quotes the mother of a friend - a Mississippi Delta girl who married a wealthy planter on the Arkansas side. In describing her Arkansas home to a Greenville friend, she said, "Well... It's kinda PIONEERISH, over here."

Much of the land is/was owned by wealthy families who live elsewhere. I know descendants of the Pughs (an ancient Romano-Judeo-Celtic family, who once were the kings of Wales), whose great-grandparents began as the 'poor' relations, managing Louisiana and Arkansas plantations owned by expat Pughs/Terrys/Perrys/Whetstones in New York and Paris. Descriptions of the family's Arkansas cohort confirm a strangeness - a mystery - an otherworldliness - an odd "Vampire-like drawl" - "Wonderful, in a surreal way." Even before the Civil War, the Arkansas Delta seems to have been the most remote frontier of plantation empires owned by grandees in places like Uptown New Orleans and Natchez. Maybe it's that marginality which makes the region so mysterious.

West Memphis has an amazingly scary vibe. A friend from Hong Kong says she gets an erotic vibe, driving through there. I get an erotic vibe from Jonesboro (maybe because I know that SOMEBODY over there surely has the originals for Black Oak Arkansas' nude photoshoot for an album. My Mama had a thing for Jim Dandy Mangrum. I've heard, second-hand, that Mangrum lived up to the rumors...)

And I've been on the Square in Fayetteville (madly buying that world class Farmer's Market produce, to schlep back to Madison, Mississippi), when the Delta People were in town for a football game. They were SO different from Ozark people: so desperately dolled-up - trying to impress, look rich, and 'fit-in'. I didn't sense 'evil', but everything about them was so different from their Ozark counterparts.

And then, there's the Delta Underclass - so VERY different from the poor in the hills.

Like I said: Little Rock lies on the border between those two worlds. YES, people from the Upper Midwest (an extension of Scandinavia) are going to feel at home in the Ozarks. The kindliness and humility of Ozark People meshes well with the kindliness and humility of Scandinavians.

But Little Rock is a mix. And it seems, to me, to be an uneasy mix.

Yes, OP and her family can have a wonderful life in/around Little Rock. But they need to be aware of the issues. She was asking, basically, "What are the issues?" - a very wise question, I think.

Asking wise questions, and being prepared, seem to me, to be Scandinavian traits. A designer friend (who used to fly up to the Midwest, on searches for a husband) once, while explaining the difference between the Scandinavian (Midwestern) Mind and the Celtic (Southern) Mind, used, as an example, two Arctic explorations. Robert Falcon Scott, the Explorer, expounded, in exhaustingly noble language, that exploration was about pressing-on, with your last ounce of energy, courageously, until you reach your heroic objective. The Leader of a contemporary Scandinavian expedition said something like, "If you had an 'adventure', it means that you didn't prepare very well."

Mr. Scott and his entire team PERISHED. The Scandinavians, on the other hand, fared rather well.

It seems to me, that OP is wisely planning, in order to avoid having an unfortunate "adventure".
And you do realize your entire response referred to the south in general. Comments like, it is assumed kids will attend private schools and it does take a village. Not to mention the south is all about football and church, or middle class families have few kids cause the kids have to go to private schools.

Big deal you have been to the Fayetteville farmers market, now you are an expert on AR. I have gotten off a couple cruise ships in Or. ports, that makes me an expert on OR> I have also vacationed there.

Yes, there is poverty, most of us do not have to have anyone tell us about the Delta region, or other regions in the state. Most of us, actually have visited these areas. But generalizing about AR and the south is very bigoted or very uninformed. Yesterdays south is not todays south.
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Old 03-05-2016, 06:08 AM
sub
 
134 posts, read 69,545 times
Reputation: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandviewGloria View Post
Good LORD! You're up next to Pea Ridge! You DO understand, don't you, that Little Rock is not at all the same as your part of Arkansas?

Something I should have explained to OP, is that Little Rock basically straddles the dividing line between The Delta and The Hills.

The Delta was settled by the sort of people who settle phenomenally rich agricultural areas (a few very smart people, and their slaves/serfs/wage slaves). Your region was settled, in large part, by genuine Hillbillies, from Appalachia - independent people whose history is relatively free from the slave-making/exploitative mentality of the empire builders. Those are two very different worlds.

I LOVE the Ozarks. But I find the Arkansas Delta to be a deeply disturbing place. It's mysterious. I have friends from Greenville, Mississippi, who grew up going to The Washington School, with kids who'd be driven over from the Arkansas side of the river, every day. "They were odd. Nice, smart, mostly Semitic... but exotic." That was the creme of the upper classes, I suppose. Another friend quotes the mother of a friend - a Mississippi Delta girl who married a wealthy planter on the Arkansas side. In describing her Arkansas home to a Greenville friend, she said, "Well... It's kinda PIONEERISH, over here."

Much of the land is/was owned by wealthy families who live elsewhere. I know descendants of the Pughs (an ancient Romano-Judeo-Celtic family, who once were the kings of Wales), whose great-grandparents began as the 'poor' relations, managing Louisiana and Arkansas plantations owned by expat Pughs/Terrys/Perrys/Whetstones in New York and Paris. Descriptions of the family's Arkansas cohort confirm a strangeness - a mystery - an otherworldliness - an odd "Vampire-like drawl" - "Wonderful, in a surreal way." Even before the Civil War, the Arkansas Delta seems to have been the most remote frontier of plantation empires owned by grandees in places like Uptown New Orleans and Natchez. Maybe it's that marginality which makes the region so mysterious.

West Memphis has an amazingly scary vibe. A friend from Hong Kong says she gets an erotic vibe, driving through there. I get an erotic vibe from Jonesboro (maybe because I know that SOMEBODY over there surely has the originals for Black Oak Arkansas' nude photoshoot for an album. My Mama had a thing for Jim Dandy Mangrum. I've heard, second-hand, that Mangrum lived up to the rumors...)

And I've been on the Square in Fayetteville (madly buying that world class Farmer's Market produce, to schlep back to Madison, Mississippi), when the Delta People were in town for a football game. They were SO different from Ozark people: so desperately dolled-up - trying to impress, look rich, and 'fit-in'. I didn't sense 'evil', but everything about them was so different from their Ozark counterparts.

And then, there's the Delta Underclass - so VERY different from the poor in the hills.

Like I said: Little Rock lies on the border between those two worlds. YES, people from the Upper Midwest (an extension of Scandinavia) are going to feel at home in the Ozarks. The kindliness and humility of Ozark People meshes well with the kindliness and humility of Scandinavians.

But Little Rock is a mix. And it seems, to me, to be an uneasy mix.

Yes, OP and her family can have a wonderful life in/around Little Rock. But they need to be aware of the issues. She was asking, basically, "What are the issues?" - a very wise question, I think.

Asking wise questions, and being prepared, seem to me, to be Scandinavian traits. A designer friend (who used to fly up to the Midwest, on searches for a husband) once, while explaining the difference between the Scandinavian (Midwestern) Mind and the Celtic (Southern) Mind, used, as an example, two Arctic explorations. Robert Falcon Scott, the Explorer, expounded, in exhaustingly noble language, that exploration was about pressing-on, with your last ounce of energy, courageously, until you reach your heroic objective. The Leader of a contemporary Scandinavian expedition said something like, "If you had an 'adventure', it means that you didn't prepare very well."

Mr. Scott and his entire team PERISHED. The Scandinavians, on the other hand, fared rather well.

It seems to me, that OP is wisely planning, in order to avoid having an unfortunate "adventure".
You had me with your first post.
I live in the Ozarks now, and while there are differences, the underlying similarities are there.
Kindliness or whatever isn't different at all. I just don't see the relation to the upper Midwest in any way concerning attitudes towards other people.
I'm not saying people from up there can't or haven't moved down here and found a nice spot for themselves, but I think it has to do a lot more with the large amount of other like them congregating in their respective enclaves keeping each other comfortable. Results from interactions with natives is mixed. They don't always just blend in.
As for the locals, there still are a LOT of grumpy, downtrodden people who just don't care about much of anything, and it shows in every aspect of the local culture. It is depressing to watch.
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