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Old 06-30-2017, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Back and Beyond
2,083 posts, read 1,669,982 times
Reputation: 4391

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I thought Arkansas was trying to shake off its backwoods Bible Belt reputation...... Especially with how NWA is booming and is supposed to be a desirable place to live. Then they go and erect statues like this? Good thing it got knocked down. I don't agree with the means on how it was removed, but it sure is better than being up.

Looks like Arkansas is still backwards no matter how hard it tries not to be....
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Old 06-30-2017, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Studio City, CA 91604
1,734 posts, read 1,985,264 times
Reputation: 2487
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post

kttam186290; your response belongs on the political thread and has nothing to do with the topic we are discussing.
I disagree. I'm both spiritual and a humanist. My spirituality derives from helping people and animals and helping protect the environment and the Earth, so I do not need superficial "monuments" to make myself feel better.

The points I cited have EVERYTHING to do with this thread because the people who erected that monument were trying to make a statement on their "values" through said monument. They idolize those values while trying to decimate the social safety net, living wages, and the health and welfare of the people in their states. To me, that is the real "crime" here, not someone knocking down a newly-erected, superficial monument.
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Old 06-30-2017, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Ozark Mountains Arkansas
1,235 posts, read 701,082 times
Reputation: 2673
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.7traveler View Post
I thought Arkansas was trying to shake off its backwoods Bible Belt reputation...... Especially with how NWA is booming and is supposed to be a desirable place to live. Then they go and erect statues like this? Good thing it got knocked down. I don't agree with the means on how it was removed, but it sure is better than being up.

Looks like Arkansas is still backwards no matter how hard it tries not to be....
I am curious since the 10 commandments seems to upset you so much. What is it specifically about what the 10 commandments say that you don't agree with? Not killing, not stealing, etc. is just absurd notions to you?
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Old 06-30-2017, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Back and Beyond
2,083 posts, read 1,669,982 times
Reputation: 4391
The 10 commandments do not upset me in any way. They just don't belong on public property, UNLESS other religious monuments and statues are also allowed to be freely put up in the same area. When it's 2017 and you're trying to attract people and new businesses to your growing state you don't create religious controversy like this. Legislators should know this.

The fact is the Bible Belt mentality does turn many people off from moving to the south, including Arkansas, who would otherwise consider it. To shake that image and move forward, they could start by not erecting Christian monuments unless other religions are allowed to do the same.
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Old 06-30-2017, 01:11 PM
 
429 posts, read 160,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollynla View Post
I am curious since the 10 commandments seems to upset you so much. What is it specifically about what the 10 commandments say that you don't agree with? Not killing, not stealing, etc. is just absurd notions to you?
"You shall have no other gods before Me" is literally #1 and probably an issue to people who do have other gods, either multiple gods, or a god other than the Judeo-Christian one.

How would you feel if another religion put a permanent monument up on the state grounds that said "You shall have no other gods other than Brahma, Saraswati, Lakshmi, Vishnu, Shiva, Durga, Harihara and Ardhanarishvara" and your government supported putting it there and didn't allow you to put the 10 commandments up?
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Old 06-30-2017, 01:33 PM
 
2,433 posts, read 2,070,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
I assume you are talking about the government in AR or are you talking about the entire USA? Do you live here, either in AR or America. Unless you can answer yes to both you do not know what you are talking about? Do you really think this government is as bad or worse than other governments? In case you don't know people in AR happen to mostly like their government so what special interest groups are you talking about?

Maybe we are supposed to think whatever Sarah says it the last word!!!
I don't know what your problem is. We've had this discussion before. Even if I weren't from Arkansas originally and hadn't lived there for over thirty years of my life and still go back every year to visit family, I'd still have a right to post an opinion in this forum.

You are a transplant living in the best economy in the state. The culture you experience in Northwest Arkansas is not the same elsewhere in the state. Go live in Little Rock or another part of the state for a while where things are not progressive like Northwest Arkansas. It won't take long to realize why other people have a viewpoint different than yours.
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Old 06-30-2017, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
63,508 posts, read 69,901,625 times
Reputation: 32328
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.7traveler View Post
I thought Arkansas was trying to shake off its backwoods Bible Belt reputation...... Especially with how NWA is booming and is supposed to be a desirable place to live. Then they go and erect statues like this? Good thing it got knocked down. I don't agree with the means on how it was removed, but it sure is better than being up.

Looks like Arkansas is still backwards no matter how hard it tries not to be....
Let me ask you this, does having the monument hurt you in anyway? Are we backwards? To you, obviously yes? Is the region growing, like many southern states yes and maybe the strong beliefs many have in god and family helps make it a great place to live and raise kids. I do not believe in discrimination in any way, but I see nothing wrong with the monument. Obviously you do believe on the way it was knocked down or you wouldn't have posted what you just did.
Just because we are not atheists doesn't make us backwards, anymore than being an atheist makes a person bad. We are free in this country to believe the way we want. A monument, the 10 commandments in the house of congress or say a Jewish Star of David on the front of a public building does no harm. Why are these things so bad? Do you have any idea if anyone has ever tried to put up a monument of a different religion other than Christianity? I have no idea, maybe you know more than I do about our state.
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Old 06-30-2017, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
63,508 posts, read 69,901,625 times
Reputation: 32328
Quote:
Originally Posted by kttam186290 View Post
I disagree. I'm both spiritual and a humanist. My spirituality derives from helping people and animals and helping protect the environment and the Earth, so I do not need superficial "monuments" to make myself feel better.

The points I cited have EVERYTHING to do with this thread because the people who erected that monument were trying to make a statement on their "values" through said monument. They idolize those values while trying to decimate the social safety net, living wages, and the health and welfare of the people in their states. To me, that is the real "crime" here, not someone knocking down a newly-erected, superficial monument.
again,, you are off base in my opinion so we will have to agree to disagree. I could take your post apart a million times, but I believe everyone has a right to voice their opinion even if you have no idea how many of us feel about the causes you are so dedicated to.
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Old 06-30-2017, 02:32 PM
 
36,500 posts, read 20,034,456 times
Reputation: 10977
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
Let me ask you this, does having the monument hurt you in anyway? Are we backwards? To you, obviously yes? Is the region growing, like many southern states yes and maybe the strong beliefs many have in god and family helps make it a great place to live and raise kids. I do not believe in discrimination in any way, but I see nothing wrong with the monument. Obviously you do believe on the way it was knocked down or you wouldn't have posted what you just did.
Just because we are not atheists doesn't make us backwards, anymore than being an atheist makes a person bad. We are free in this country to believe the way we want. A monument, the 10 commandments in the house of congress or say a Jewish Star of David on the front of a public building does no harm. Why are these things so bad? Do you have any idea if anyone has ever tried to put up a monument of a different religion other than Christianity? I have no idea, maybe you know more than I do about our state.
Yes, having the monument hurts. It hurts because it causes the citizens of other states to consider us backwards. It hurts because it suggests that we don't separate church and state in Arkansas.

I don't approve of a monument that has meaning to many Arkansans being destroyed.

But people who do not want the monument on public property aren't atheists. They are people who value freedom of religion and respect that the fact that when the government endorses one religion over all others, that government is devaluing all other religions, and devaluing the principle of freedom of religion.

And yes, when the announcement was made that this monument was going to go up on government property, an application was made by another religion to put up their monument. That application was swiftly scuttled by the state, as the legislature then enacted a law that required legislative approval beforehand. Effectively, no other monuments can be erected. Effectively, no other religions can put up monuments. After all, we wouldn't want anything but a CHRISTIAN monument going up on government grounds. Whether that's Constitutional or not.

And what people who support these kinds of actions don't get is that the state will now spend millions of dollars defending itself in lawsuits, which, because of the follow-up legislation blocking other religions from putting up monuments, we will lose. And we're not a rich state. That money could be used to promote better health, to provide better education, to do many things which we'd all support. But instead, some Christians want to put up their monument on public land, rather than private land, because if they can't put it on public land they must be being persecuted. And they'll happily persecute anyone else who tries to put up their monument on public land. That's why people think the state is backward.
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Old 06-30-2017, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Back and Beyond
2,083 posts, read 1,669,982 times
Reputation: 4391
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
Let me ask you this, does having the monument hurt you in anyway? Are we backwards? To you, obviously yes? Is the region growing, like many southern states yes and maybe the strong beliefs many have in god and family helps make it a great place to live and raise kids. I do not believe in discrimination in any way, but I see nothing wrong with the monument. Obviously you do believe on the way it was knocked down or you wouldn't have posted what you just did.
Just because we are not atheists doesn't make us backwards, anymore than being an atheist makes a person bad. We are free in this country to believe the way we want. A monument, the 10 commandments in the house of congress or say a Jewish Star of David on the front of a public building does no harm. Why are these things so bad? Do you have any idea if anyone has ever tried to put up a monument of a different religion other than Christianity? I have no idea, maybe you know more than I do about our state.
Again I have no problem with the monument, or even the fact that it was on public grounds. The part I had a problem with was it sure sounded like they made it pretty much impossible for any other religious group to put up their own monument nearby. Which isn't OK.

I also don't agree with the crazy dudes actions of knocking it down and would have obviously preferred to have it removed legally, or other religious statues allowed nearby by the actions of a court. However it sounded like that wasn't going to happen anytime soon. It would have been a long and drawn out battle and would have just allowed the legislators to continue making fools of themselves as they dug their heels in. This kind of stuff creates bad publicity for the state just as N.C.'s bathroom bill did for them.

I also wasn't calling the people of Arkansas backwoods and apologize if it came off that way. I was calling your legislators actions backwards and stating the fact that Arkansas does suffer from backwoods reputation, even though in many areas that's not the case.

I just thought that Arkansas was becoming one of the more progressive forward moving southern states. Especially with NWA. I've spent some time there and it's a great area. Sorry that it's a turn off to some people that there's a decent sized overly religious population in other parts of the state that are quasi trying to make Christianity the official religion of Arkansas.

Don't you guys have legal medical Cannabis now? That's ok but other religious monuments aren't?
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