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Old 10-14-2008, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,998 posts, read 12,766,502 times
Reputation: 3536

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTTNFAM View Post
To reply to the last two comments, which seemed aimed at my post... I neither have "gay fear" nor do I hate gays/lesbians. I am a Christian, and therefore I do not believe that the homosexual lifestyle is right! According to the bible, homosexual relationships are forbidden, as stated in Leviticus 18 of the Holy Bible. To me, that can not be overlooked by anyone who proclaims to be a Christian! That is the reason why I do not think gays/lesbians should be allowed to be adoptive or foster parents, it is not a natural lifestyle and as I have stated these kids have had enough adversity already! I believe that if someone chooses to participate in homosexual relationships they should be willing to understand that doing so has consequences (just as drinking and driving has consequences), and will limit them in their desires of having children and so forth! Just because people do not have the opinion in which you do does not make them gay/lesbian haters! I hate the sin (homosexuality) not the person, which is what Christianity teaches. I do not try to take the "moral high road", but I do base my decisions on my faith. Again, the OP asked for opinions, you have mine. I realize I am in minority on this one, and that's OK!

I never woke up one day and said,"Hey, I'm going to be a lesbian."
Looking back on my childhood, I've always had stronger feelings for girls than for guys. I've dated guys in my past and I've never had feelings AS strong for girls as I've had for guys.
I didn't CHOOSE to be a lesbian.
People CHOOSE to drink, people CHOOSE to drive drunk, or do drugs but choosing to be gay?

No.
I wouldn't choose to be the subject of hate, intolerance, bigotry, discrimination, etc.
I wouldn't choose to have hateful things said about me, not that it really phases me anymore these days. I know what's true about myself.

Lots of scientific evidence has come out to support that sexual orientation is not chosen but even if I showed it to you, I doubt you'd change your mind, which is sad but oh well.

A lifestyle is choosing to live your life in an RV, not choosing to be true to your true sexual orientation.

Sexual orientation does not make one person a better parent than the other. If that case the case, lots of kids would NOT be in foster care right now.

I could really care less about the bible since I'm an Atheist. Why shouldn't my atheist beliefs be represented? [Not that there is a prescriped ideology for Atheism besides not believing in a deity/higher power/whatever. Not all atheists believe in same-sex marriage just like not all christians believe in banning same-sex marriage]

We'll agree to disagree which is fine.
I have no problems with people not liking that I'm a lesbian but when you try to legislate certain freedoms, rights, etc based upon the fact that you don't like my sexual orientation, that's when we have a problem.

I don't see what's so wrong with letting the state decide who is fit to be a foster parent or an adoptive parent on a case-by-case basis.

This law, as I have stated before, also applies to private adoptions which I don't think the state should have an interest in.
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Old 10-14-2008, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,998 posts, read 12,766,502 times
Reputation: 3536
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTTNFAM View Post
I don't believe I have told you how to live your life?? Anyway... We are both right in that we are both allowed and have a right to our own opinions! If we all shared the same opinion, things would be pretty boring! I just felt that my opinon was being "misunderstood" as gay/lesbian hating, and wanted to clarify that it was not! I have done that to the best of my ability, and now I hope the thread can get back to the main topic of opinions on the measure and not rantings from the right and the left on how we disagree! I say we should agree to disagree and move
You may not have said, "This is the way you should live your life" but by supporting laws that restrict a person's rights, freedoms, what have you...you are in some shape or form saying, "This is HOW you will live your life."

Don't like abortion? Don't have one.
Don't like same-sex marriage? Don't marry someone of the same sex.
Don't want gays to adopt all the kids? Adopt a few of your own and try to get less kids to go into the foster care system in the first place.
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Old 10-14-2008, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
69,315 posts, read 79,508,905 times
Reputation: 38668
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveTodayLez08 View Post
I never woke up one day and said,"Hey, I'm going to be a lesbian."
Looking back on my childhood, I've always had stronger feelings for girls than for guys. I've dated guys in my past and I've never had feelings AS strong for girls as I've had for guys.
I didn't CHOOSE to be a lesbian.
People CHOOSE to drink, people CHOOSE to drive drunk, or do drugs but choosing to be gay?

No.
I wouldn't choose to be the subject of hate, intolerance, bigotry, discrimination, etc.
I wouldn't choose to have hateful things said about me, not that it really phases me anymore these days. I know what's true about myself.

Lots of scientific evidence has come out to support that sexual orientation is not chosen but even if I showed it to you, I doubt you'd change your mind, which is sad but oh well.

A lifestyle is choosing to live your life in an RV, not choosing to be true to your true sexual orientation.

Sexual orientation does not make one person a better parent than the other. If that case the case, lots of kids would NOT be in foster care right now.

I could really care less about the bible since I'm an Atheist. Why shouldn't my atheist beliefs be represented? [Not that there is a prescriped ideology for Atheism besides not believing in a deity/higher power/whatever. Not all atheists believe in same-sex marriage just like not all christians believe in banning same-sex marriage]

We'll agree to disagree which is fine.
I have no problems with people not liking that I'm a lesbian but when you try to legislate certain freedoms, rights, etc based upon the fact that you don't like my sexual orientation, that's when we have a problem.

I don't see what's so wrong with letting the state decide who is fit to be a foster parent or an adoptive parent on a case-by-case basis.

This law, as I have stated before, also applies to private adoptions which I don't think the state should have an interest in.
I don't intend to get involved in this debate as I think it is taking a nasty turn. I will only correct one thing: as a parent of 2 adopted children, if the state or county does not get involved in private adoptions the adoption would not be legal.

Nita
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Old 10-14-2008, 03:33 PM
 
1,703 posts, read 5,546,664 times
Reputation: 912
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
Hey, since when are we talking about the presidency? Sam is going to pull this thread, which is interesting and informative if we start talking politics....
Umm, I have to talk about the presidency because it is the clear motivation behind this hatefulness being put on the ballot in the first place. I cannot separate the motive from the issue.
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Old 10-14-2008, 03:38 PM
 
Location: The Great State of Arkansas
5,981 posts, read 15,906,069 times
Reputation: 7531
Sam is here...okay, okay...everyone has an opinion. I haven't specifically seen anyone attacked but we're sure cruising down that road ninety to nothing.

Let's don't drift too far afield - the question is a good one and sure to involve personal feelings and beliefs. Let's just keep it civil. It's an interesting proposal no matter where you stand on the issue simply in how it is worded. Arkansas politics is certainly a welcome topic, but let's keep it local.
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Old 10-14-2008, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
69,315 posts, read 79,508,905 times
Reputation: 38668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam I Am View Post
Sam is here...okay, okay...everyone has an opinion. I haven't specifically seen anyone attacked but we're sure cruising down that road ninety to nothing.

Let's don't drift too far afield - the question is a good one and sure to involve personal feelings and beliefs. Let's just keep it civil. It's an interesting proposal no matter where you stand on the issue simply in how it is worded. Arkansas politics is certainly a welcome topic, but let's keep it local.
thanks Sam...

Nita
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Old 10-14-2008, 03:44 PM
 
Location: In my playhouse.
1,047 posts, read 2,459,949 times
Reputation: 1717
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTTNFAM View Post
To reply to the last two comments, which seemed aimed at my post... I neither have "gay fear" nor do I hate gays/lesbians. I am a Christian, and therefore I do not believe that the homosexual lifestyle is right! According to the bible, homosexual relationships are forbidden, as stated in Leviticus 18 of the Holy Bible. To me, that can not be overlooked by anyone who proclaims to be a Christian! That is the reason why I do not think gays/lesbians should be allowed to be adoptive or foster parents, it is not a natural lifestyle and as I have stated these kids have had enough adversity already! I believe that if someone chooses to participate in homosexual relationships they should be willing to understand that doing so has consequences (just as drinking and driving has consequences), and will limit them in their desires of having children and so forth! Just because people do not have the opinion in which you do does not make them gay/lesbian haters! I hate the sin (homosexuality) not the person, which is what Christianity teaches. I do not try to take the "moral high road", but I do base my decisions on my faith. Again, the OP asked for opinions, you have mine. I realize I am in minority on this one, and that's OK!
I am a Christian. I believe in a higher power. I have been married to my husband for over forty years. I can be a Christian and believe there are a lot of other views that are just as valid. I also believe that it is not right for you to ask someone else to limit their desires.

This exchange of ideas is exactly what the issue on the ballot is about.

Many years ago when I first moved to Arkansas there was a tree that everyone refered to as the "hanging tree". A few blacks had been hung on that tree by "unknown" people. One was hung because he was found in the home of a white woman. After hearing other stories about the white woman, I don't believe for a second the black man forced his way into her home.

Another thing this reminds me of is a friend from Thailand. Shortly after she moved to Arkansas a few neighbors came by to invite her to go to their church. She politely said no thank you. They kept asking questions and finially said "Well you are a Christian aren't you?" She told them "No I am a Buddist." She said they left like she told them she was a murderer. After that they never spoke to her again. She left Arkansas and has no desire to ever return.

There was a time when a person was judged by the color of their skin. I believe that there will be a time when your sexually life is not a factor either.
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Old 10-14-2008, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
69,315 posts, read 79,508,905 times
Reputation: 38668
Quote:
Originally Posted by strumpeace View Post
Umm, I have to talk about the presidency because it is the clear motivation behind this hatefulness being put on the ballot in the first place. I cannot separate the motive from the issue.
Call me niave but though I do think those behind the issue are right wingers, I do not believe that is the reason they want the issue on the ballot. They are not saying vote for this issue and vote republican or democrat...I see them 2 different ways. I am voting one way on the issue, the other for President, I am sure many will do exactly that, or I hope they will. Again, this is my take on the issue, many will differ...

Nita
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Old 10-14-2008, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,946 posts, read 14,607,446 times
Reputation: 4457
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveTodayLez08 View Post
Lots of scientific evidence has come out to support that sexual orientation is not chosen but even if I showed it to you, I doubt you'd change your mind, which is sad but oh well.

A lifestyle is choosing to live your life in an RV, not choosing to be true to your true sexual orientation.
Most of that little scientific evidence that has been done is biased and done by gay people to promote their agenda. There is no known gay gene, and although there are certain biological traits found more common in gay people, there is absolutely NO hard evidence that sexual orientation is an inborn trait. It could be a psychological issue resulting from some kind of gender confusion during childhood. Even if you don't choose who you are attracted to, you still choose the relationships you have. There comes a time in everybody's life when one must choose between God and His salvation and the pleasures of sin. For some people, that sin holding them back is homosexuality, for others its gluttony, pornography, you name it. Whatever it is, we can either deny ourselves, take up our cross, and follow Christ, and live life eternally, or we can live for the pleasures of this earth here and now and face judgment in the afterlife. Its our choice.
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Old 10-14-2008, 05:51 PM
 
Location: In my playhouse.
1,047 posts, read 2,459,949 times
Reputation: 1717
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
Most of that little scientific evidence that has been done is biased and done by gay people to promote their agenda. There is no known gay gene, and although there are certain biological traits found more common in gay people, there is absolutely NO hard evidence that sexual orientation is an inborn trait. It could be a psychological issue resulting from some kind of gender confusion during childhood. Even if you don't choose who you are attracted to, you still choose the relationships you have. There comes a time in everybody's life when one must choose between God and His salvation and the pleasures of sin. For some people, that sin holding them back is homosexuality, for others its gluttony, pornography, you name it. Whatever it is, we can either deny ourselves, take up our cross, and follow Christ, and live life eternally, or we can live for the pleasures of this earth here and now and face judgment in the afterlife. Its our choice.
Would you please give us a link or ten that supports your statement that I have highlighted in red?
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