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Old 04-02-2009, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Hot Springs, AR
99 posts, read 243,169 times
Reputation: 54

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveTodayLez08 View Post
So Huckabee may not be happy but Jerry Cox is certainly happy to rid the state of gays and lesbians.
Huckabee would gladly keep me here but restrict my freedoms severely.

Yeah, a lot of people in my graduated class said they want to get their degree and just leave.
I'd love to stay and see the state grow but eh...
I'll see in about 6 years. I'll be done with college in 2012 and I'll have two degrees under my belt. I will probably be working here for about 2-3 years to get some experience under my belt and I also want to get my master's before I leave.
It's nice to see another young person on the boards.
I just read that Eureka Springs started issuing domestic partnerships in 2007 to both gay and straight couples, and that a proposed bill to ban these failed to pass. However, I don't know any details of their "domestic partnership registry" as the article referred to it.

Yes, it is good to see more under 25 folks on here! I always wonder about the age stats on here. I am sure we are somewhat of a minority here.
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
9,000 posts, read 8,963,322 times
Reputation: 3459
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotSpringsLiving View Post
I just read that Eureka Springs started issuing domestic partnerships in 2007 to both gay and straight couples, and that a proposed bill to ban these failed to pass. However, I don't know any details of their "domestic partnership registry" as the article referred to it.

Yes, it is good to see more under 25 folks on here! I always wonder about the age stats on here. I am sure we are somewhat of a minority here.
Yeah, we are a minority. lol.

It failed to pass BUT it can be brought up tomorrow. Jerry Cox plans to be there and he plans to write down the votes of people who vote no against it in committee so he can use it against them when they come up for reelection. He will say that they are for gay rights...as if that is just OH so horrible but then again this is Arkansas.

I think Representative King (the writer of the bill to ban the registries) is basically doing it to garner votes when/if he runs for the state Senate.

The registry is mainly symbolic and sometimes couples can get health insurance from their employer if their employer recognizes it. I find the actions of Jerry Cox and Representative King to be cruel, at the very least. By banning the registries, they can cost people health care coverage. ::shakes head::

I would think they would have something better to do with their time than gay bash but I guess not.
Even Kansas has a domestic partnership registry, that should tell you something.

Here is some info on the registry: ORDINANCE NO

Cox also knew of this registry yet he hasn't gone after it until now...
I guess the success of Initiated Act 1 has him all fired up.
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Old 04-03-2009, 08:19 AM
 
1,651 posts, read 3,075,702 times
Reputation: 1214
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
I'm sorry, but this is awful! You think someone should circumscribe their life to two states because 48 states have laws that foster discrimination and ignorance. I love Arkansas. I'm thrilled that it's a place where people like you have found the freedom to truly be yourselves. I would be even more thrilled if it were a place where LiveTodayLez could also be herself, and be respected for the caring, intelligent person she is. She has a tremendous amount to offer the state, and her contributions can be of value. I know that many Arkansans don't want people moving in, and changing the place, but sometimes there's a need for change. We needed to change when Central High was desegregated, and if LiveTodayLez is trying to change Arkansas into a more tolerant place, then kudos to her!
Sorry you feel that way DC, I respect your opinions, but I stick by my observation, and I'll tell you why.

First of all, we have a person that states on a public forum that these political and societal circumstances are driving her to think of suicide. I consider that pretty radical.

I don't believe there is anything that is that bad, but I'm not in her world.

For every single problem, big or small, there is a solution. The *only* issue is wether we want to pursue that solution.

I've had adolescents tell me that they're considering suicide before. Over what? Terminal illness? Long term abuse?

No, usually because mom & dad won't let them get their lip pierced or go out with certain people.

Tragedy comes early enough in life without inviting it.

I totally agree with you that the OP has a lot to offer, as most all here do.

As far as her trying to change Arkansas into a more tolerant place, or make any change on the percieved oppressive laws, I don't read every post, so maybe I missed it. Is she petitioning politicians, working for a PAC? Working the campaign of a pro-gay politician?

Arkansas is not going to be changed........soon.

Funny thing about this country...we can vote to make it *close* to the way we want it. There us a huge movement underway, as we espound our personal viewpoints....to make states rights stronger.

People in the individual states are tired of the feds dictating what they do.

People that work, raise families, pay taxes, support the 'underprivileged' population, and are now looking at paying for the college education of the kids of illegal immigrants.

A Rep in NC has introduced a bill to secede from the union again.

Groups of people tired of the environment and trying to change it.

Have you ever been to the "tenderloin" district in San Francisco or "Lakeview" (boistown) in Chicago?

I have. I've seen what happens first hand what happens when a "straight" goes into the bars and clubs. If their very, very lucky, they're just told to leave, but that's the exception.

It is *totally*, "We are gay, this is our area, so get the <heck> out".

That's pretty 'tolerant'. Don't wait around too long to join arms and sing, "We are the world".

Yes, D.C., I'll agree with you that it's too bad that the OP can't have all these laws and bills more gay friendly. It's also too bad that I have to wear clothes when it's so darn hot out and I've got to run to Wal Mart, or that NAMBLA has to struggle so much for their "cause".

These are not "bible thumping" however, these are based on the mores' and folkways of society that shape our conduct, or the display of it, to be in line with the society that we currently live in.

As mentioned, there are colonies, cities, and states that are 100% in line with the OP's desires, but in general, it's not Arkansas.

I'm politically active, DC, as I'm sure some others are here. I write checks, I carry petitions, I write letters, I meet with Reps, I attend fundraisers, and most important of all, I vote.

When I do, I choose my fights carefully.

Personally, I look at people losing jobs, getting foreclosed on, not having health insurance, trying to raise families with all this going on, government overspending, involvement in bleeding-money conflicts, rampant drug use and production, foreign investment inthe U.S., wildlife and environmental preservation...you know.....minor things like that.

When it comes to a bill that says that because I'm male, I can't marry Tommy Joe's son down the road.......

Well, I'd be happy to see someone fighting that fight if they so choose.

Fighting the fight, DC.

Not just complaining.

BTW, there are countries where the admission of being gay would mean execution.

Maybe....just maybe...we're a little more liberal than it appears.

It's a great day in the Ozarks.
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Old 04-03-2009, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Hot Springs, AR
99 posts, read 243,169 times
Reputation: 54
I thought it did seem primarily symbolic. Knew you would have more info on it!
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Old 04-03-2009, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
50,107 posts, read 42,556,275 times
Reputation: 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogMar View Post
Sorry you feel that way DC, I respect your opinions, but I stick by my observation, and I'll tell you why.

First of all, we have a person that states on a public forum that these political and societal circumstances are driving her to think of suicide. I consider that pretty radical.

I don't believe there is anything that is that bad, but I'm not in her world.

For every single problem, big or small, there is a solution. The *only* issue is wether we want to pursue that solution.

I've had adolescents tell me that they're considering suicide before. Over what? Terminal illness? Long term abuse?

No, usually because mom & dad won't let them get their lip pierced or go out with certain people.

Tragedy comes early enough in life without inviting it.

I totally agree with you that the OP has a lot to offer, as most all here do.

As far as her trying to change Arkansas into a more tolerant place, or make any change on the percieved oppressive laws, I don't read every post, so maybe I missed it. Is she petitioning politicians, working for a PAC? Working the campaign of a pro-gay politician?

Arkansas is not going to be changed........soon.

Funny thing about this country...we can vote to make it *close* to the way we want it. There us a huge movement underway, as we espound our personal viewpoints....to make states rights stronger.

People in the individual states are tired of the feds dictating what they do.

People that work, raise families, pay taxes, support the 'underprivileged' population, and are now looking at paying for the college education of the kids of illegal immigrants.

A Rep in NC has introduced a bill to secede from the union again.

Groups of people tired of the environment and trying to change it.

Have you ever been to the "tenderloin" district in San Francisco or "Lakeview" (boistown) in Chicago?

I have. I've seen what happens first hand what happens when a "straight" goes into the bars and clubs. If their very, very lucky, they're just told to leave, but that's the exception.

It is *totally*, "We are gay, this is our area, so get the <heck> out".

That's pretty 'tolerant'. Don't wait around too long to join arms and sing, "We are the world".

Yes, D.C., I'll agree with you that it's too bad that the OP can't have all these laws and bills more gay friendly. It's also too bad that I have to wear clothes when it's so darn hot out and I've got to run to Wal Mart, or that NAMBLA has to struggle so much for their "cause".

These are not "bible thumping" however, these are based on the mores' and folkways of society that shape our conduct, or the display of it, to be in line with the society that we currently live in.

As mentioned, there are colonies, cities, and states that are 100% in line with the OP's desires, but in general, it's not Arkansas.

I'm politically active, DC, as I'm sure some others are here. I write checks, I carry petitions, I write letters, I meet with Reps, I attend fundraisers, and most important of all, I vote.

When I do, I choose my fights carefully.

Personally, I look at people losing jobs, getting foreclosed on, not having health insurance, trying to raise families with all this going on, government overspending, involvement in bleeding-money conflicts, rampant drug use and production, foreign investment inthe U.S., wildlife and environmental preservation...you know.....minor things like that.

When it comes to a bill that says that because I'm male, I can't marry Tommy Joe's son down the road.......

Well, I'd be happy to see someone fighting that fight if they so choose.

Fighting the fight, DC.

Not just complaining.

BTW, there are countries where the admission of being gay would mean execution.

Maybe....just maybe...we're a little more liberal than it appears.

It's a great day in the Ozarks.
tried to rep you, but have to spread it around..

Nita
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Old 04-03-2009, 08:55 AM
 
29,248 posts, read 11,868,317 times
Reputation: 7757
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogMar View Post
Sorry you feel that way DC, I respect your opinions, but I stick by my observation, and I'll tell you why.

First of all, we have a person that states on a public forum that these political and societal circumstances are driving her to think of suicide. I consider that pretty radical.

I don't believe there is anything that is that bad, but I'm not in her world.

For every single problem, big or small, there is a solution. The *only* issue is wether we want to pursue that solution.

I've had adolescents tell me that they're considering suicide before. Over what? Terminal illness? Long term abuse?

No, usually because mom & dad won't let them get their lip pierced or go out with certain people.

Tragedy comes early enough in life without inviting it.

I totally agree with you that the OP has a lot to offer, as most all here do.

As far as her trying to change Arkansas into a more tolerant place, or make any change on the percieved oppressive laws, I don't read every post, so maybe I missed it. Is she petitioning politicians, working for a PAC? Working the campaign of a pro-gay politician?

Arkansas is not going to be changed........soon.

Funny thing about this country...we can vote to make it *close* to the way we want it. There us a huge movement underway, as we espound our personal viewpoints....to make states rights stronger.

People in the individual states are tired of the feds dictating what they do.

People that work, raise families, pay taxes, support the 'underprivileged' population, and are now looking at paying for the college education of the kids of illegal immigrants.

A Rep in NC has introduced a bill to secede from the union again.

Groups of people tired of the environment and trying to change it.

Have you ever been to the "tenderloin" district in San Francisco or "Lakeview" (boistown) in Chicago?

I have. I've seen what happens first hand what happens when a "straight" goes into the bars and clubs. If their very, very lucky, they're just told to leave, but that's the exception.

It is *totally*, "We are gay, this is our area, so get the <heck> out".

That's pretty 'tolerant'. Don't wait around too long to join arms and sing, "We are the world".

Yes, D.C., I'll agree with you that it's too bad that the OP can't have all these laws and bills more gay friendly. It's also too bad that I have to wear clothes when it's so darn hot out and I've got to run to Wal Mart, or that NAMBLA has to struggle so much for their "cause".

These are not "bible thumping" however, these are based on the mores' and folkways of society that shape our conduct, or the display of it, to be in line with the society that we currently live in.

As mentioned, there are colonies, cities, and states that are 100% in line with the OP's desires, but in general, it's not Arkansas.

I'm politically active, DC, as I'm sure some others are here. I write checks, I carry petitions, I write letters, I meet with Reps, I attend fundraisers, and most important of all, I vote.

When I do, I choose my fights carefully.

Personally, I look at people losing jobs, getting foreclosed on, not having health insurance, trying to raise families with all this going on, government overspending, involvement in bleeding-money conflicts, rampant drug use and production, foreign investment inthe U.S., wildlife and environmental preservation...you know.....minor things like that.

When it comes to a bill that says that because I'm male, I can't marry Tommy Joe's son down the road.......

Well, I'd be happy to see someone fighting that fight if they so choose.

Fighting the fight, DC.

Not just complaining.

BTW, there are countries where the admission of being gay would mean execution.

Maybe....just maybe...we're a little more liberal than it appears.

It's a great day in the Ozarks.
Rogmar, I normally love your posts, and I appreciate your point of view. But I think LiveToday's suicidal thoughts are the result of being a part of society that is regularly and systematically marginalized. I'm all for fighting the good fight. I, too, am very politically active. I've worked on campaigns, I write letters, and I'm pretty vocal. I don't think you find me complaining about Arkansas very often, I'm much more likely to be defending. Arkansas is changing. Every day, every time someone new moves into the state, every time there's a new business opening, every time a new house goes up. It's changing. It doesn't change as fast as urban areas, and I've stated on this forum that that's not a bad thing. We have time to evaluate our direction, to make more choices about how we want to change. But part of that has to include the people who are minorities, for whatever reason. Politically, I'm in the minority in my area. But my responsibility as a citizen is still to help direct those inevitable changes that are happening. If the trend is to extreme conservatism, I work to make it more moderate. You post alot about how comfortable you feel in the area, how accepted you are by the locals, how tolerant they are of yours and others eccentricities. Tolerance isn't about embracing alternative lifestyles, but in appreciating the value that people living alternative lifestyles bring to society. Arkansas, like everywhere else, picks and chooses where they want to be tolerant, and how tolerant they want to be. LiveToday, unfortunately, belongs to a group that the state in general tends to be intolerant of. But the reasons for that intolerance aren't very good. If LiveToday and all the other people who Arkansas is intolerant of just packed their bags and left the state, the state might be a happier place, but it wouldn't be a better place. It would be an even more intolerant place, because there would be no one left to challenge it to be better, no one left to challenge the misconceptions and bad information, no one left to champion the causes of minority groups. I don't want Arkansas to become California or Massachusetts or Vermont. I want Arkansas to become a better Arkansas. And I think the presence of groups Arkansas has traditionally been intolerant of challenges Arkansas to be that better version of itself. To build on the many positive aspects of the state, but to grow and progress as well.
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Old 04-03-2009, 08:59 AM
 
1,651 posts, read 3,075,702 times
Reputation: 1214
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
tried to rep you, but have to spread it around..

Nita
Thanks, Nita.

I'm stuck in that hole also.

It's gonna be like....2016 or something before I can rep a lot of people here.
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Old 04-03-2009, 09:33 AM
 
1,651 posts, read 3,075,702 times
Reputation: 1214
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Rogmar, I normally love your posts, and I appreciate your point of view. But I think LiveToday's suicidal thoughts are the result of being a part of society that is regularly and systematically marginalized. I'm all for fighting the good fight. I, too, am very politically active. I've worked on campaigns, I write letters, and I'm pretty vocal. I don't think you find me complaining about Arkansas very often, I'm much more likely to be defending. Arkansas is changing. Every day, every time someone new moves into the state, every time there's a new business opening, every time a new house goes up. It's changing. It doesn't change as fast as urban areas, and I've stated on this forum that that's not a bad thing. We have time to evaluate our direction, to make more choices about how we want to change. But part of that has to include the people who are minorities, for whatever reason. Politically, I'm in the minority in my area. But my responsibility as a citizen is still to help direct those inevitable changes that are happening. If the trend is to extreme conservatism, I work to make it more moderate. You post alot about how comfortable you feel in the area, how accepted you are by the locals, how tolerant they are of yours and others eccentricities. Tolerance isn't about embracing alternative lifestyles, but in appreciating the value that people living alternative lifestyles bring to society. Arkansas, like everywhere else, picks and chooses where they want to be tolerant, and how tolerant they want to be. LiveToday, unfortunately, belongs to a group that the state in general tends to be intolerant of. But the reasons for that intolerance aren't very good. If LiveToday and all the other people who Arkansas is intolerant of just packed their bags and left the state, the state might be a happier place, but it wouldn't be a better place. It would be an even more intolerant place, because there would be no one left to challenge it to be better, no one left to challenge the misconceptions and bad information, no one left to champion the causes of minority groups. I don't want Arkansas to become California or Massachusetts or Vermont. I want Arkansas to become a better Arkansas. And I think the presence of groups Arkansas has traditionally been intolerant of challenges Arkansas to be that better version of itself. To build on the many positive aspects of the state, but to grow and progress as well.
No argument there, DC.

Name me one thing that *everybody* is going to agree on. That would be very boring.

You think I feel comfortable when I'm in Liittle Rock?

No....I'm like a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

I've been urban. I've been very, very urban. I hated most of it, but I tried to take the jewels from what laid before me, and I'm glad for the experience.

How would you feel if a sex offender moved next door to your family?

OH......!! Much like the majority, methinks.

Are you going to get to know that offender, have a few beers, and ask, "Soooo....what did they accuse you of that got you status?"

Noooooooooo.

So you don't know if that person got busted for sleeping with his 16 year old girlfriend whe he was 17, or she "sexted" an improper picture of herself to his phone, or if he is truely a societal monster that only through a warped judicial system walks semi-freely among us.

I think the majority of people are going to revolt against it, as they do.

There will be those that say, "He paid his price, he did his time, let him live".

You know, it would be simple if we could have all laws, bills, and ordinances based on simple fact.

If computers were making those descisions, it would be.

However *we* make those descisions. Human beings. We are very imperfect.

Out of all those imperfect voting bodies, a politician will do what the biggest majority of his voting/contributing imperfect entities tell him they want.

If you want change, you have to convince the majority that they want change also.

Change to your way of seeing the issue.

I wish everyone luck with that.

I look back on the grand visions I had in my teen years, and I grin.

Man...!! It was *so* important to me to get "Equal rights" for all, legalize marijuana, convert to a socialist system in the U.S.

I wish somebody would have just dragged me out into a field and "educated" me.

In 2000, I went to a reunion in my home town, and saw people I hadn't seen or talked to since I walked away in 1970.

Shortly into this gathering, people started stopping by my table and looking at me like I had lost both arms or something and after short chit-chat they'd shake their head slowly and ask, "Rog....what *happened* to you?"

"Uhhh...sorry bud. I grew up".

Darn it...

That just happens sometimes.

When perceptions are not your friend, there are many ways to meet it. Just as the trials, tribulations, and tragedies that many of us have had in getting to the point that we can sport gray hair and spoil our grand kids.

You can huddle against the storm and wait for it to pass, or you can dig your heels in, shake your fist to the elements, and as so well put in Act 3 of Julius Caeser, "Cry 'Havoc', and let slip the dogs of war".

My dogs are getting tired, DC.

It's your turn.

Last edited by RogMar; 04-03-2009 at 09:37 AM.. Reason: Too many letters on my keyboard
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Old 04-03-2009, 09:50 AM
 
29,248 posts, read 11,868,317 times
Reputation: 7757
I'm not a "let slip the dogs of war" kinda person, Rog. My dog is a slobbery love-mutt that I have a hard time keeping off of people. And I'm not an idealistic young girl, either. I'm all grown up, and my political views at 17 haven't changed all that much over the years. I think the main change is that in my misbegotten youth, I believed in sweeping changes, and over the years I've become distrustful of those sweeping changes. But the little incremental changes, the ones not achieved by the dogs of war, but rather by the soft but incessant drips of common sense and practicality, the little changes can be the most effective. As a campaigner, I believe in the very best of my fellow man, and that gentle persuasion may take longer, but the kind of change that achieves is more enduring then the changes effected by the winds of war.
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Old 04-03-2009, 10:00 AM
 
1,651 posts, read 3,075,702 times
Reputation: 1214
BTW, the Iowa Supreme Court voted this morning to be the third state to recognize gay marriage.

Iowa.....

Now there's a liberal bastion.
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